but saves pension payments to us coffin dodgers when we croak.
I’m thinking of the lifetime cost gas central heating and electric heating. Boiler servicing adds to the lifetime costs. If you’re boiler system failed or needs upgrading would you consider electric heating as more cost effective option?
If it’s a newbuild would it be more cost effective over 25 years to go electric?
If it’s a newbuild would it be more cost effective over 25 years to go electric?
D
davesparks
It depends on the system, if you're comparing a gas boiler to an electric boiler I think the gas boiler will always win.
If you're comparing a gas boiler to other forms of electric heating it may be a different story.
Also the method of heat delivery (radiators/wet underfloor) and the type of control will have a bearing on the efficiency and running cost of the system as a whole.
If you're comparing a gas boiler to other forms of electric heating it may be a different story.
Also the method of heat delivery (radiators/wet underfloor) and the type of control will have a bearing on the efficiency and running cost of the system as a whole.
Imagine you had a bare shell of a house...
do you plumb in a combi, with gas pipes, water pipes, radiators etc...or do you make sure it is well insulated (fraction of the cost of the above) and install efficient electric radiators?
If the electricity fails, neither will work. However, if you have efficient electric radiators, the cost of keeping your house warm will be lower, over the 15 years lifetime of the gas boiler (assumed). Hot water is another thing altogether.
If you live in a rural location where woodburners are the thing, and you have a ready supply of cheap or free wood, then you are in a win situation, and the extra pollution is outweighed by the pollution caused by producing your energy from other means...and don't even think about telling me a giant wind-turbine is cheap to produce, because it isn't, and it involves smelting to get the aluminium, mining for the copper etc etc
My sister has her own small hydro plant, so electricity is free (it took only 7 years to recover the capital outlay) and she is fortunate in owning a few hundred hectares of woodland, so her woodburner is supplied from fallen timber, free of charge. It is all about looking at options, and trying to get off-grid at every opportunity. No chance for most of us in suburbia, but let's be happy for those who get energy for nothing, money for nothing...and chicks for free!
do you plumb in a combi, with gas pipes, water pipes, radiators etc...or do you make sure it is well insulated (fraction of the cost of the above) and install efficient electric radiators?
If the electricity fails, neither will work. However, if you have efficient electric radiators, the cost of keeping your house warm will be lower, over the 15 years lifetime of the gas boiler (assumed). Hot water is another thing altogether.
If you live in a rural location where woodburners are the thing, and you have a ready supply of cheap or free wood, then you are in a win situation, and the extra pollution is outweighed by the pollution caused by producing your energy from other means...and don't even think about telling me a giant wind-turbine is cheap to produce, because it isn't, and it involves smelting to get the aluminium, mining for the copper etc etc
My sister has her own small hydro plant, so electricity is free (it took only 7 years to recover the capital outlay) and she is fortunate in owning a few hundred hectares of woodland, so her woodburner is supplied from fallen timber, free of charge. It is all about looking at options, and trying to get off-grid at every opportunity. No chance for most of us in suburbia, but let's be happy for those who get energy for nothing, money for nothing...and chicks for free!
Chicks to lower winter heating bill , now there's an idea.
(Why am I imagining her with chain saw !)
A well insulated building needs wiring carefully !
(Why am I imagining her with chain saw !)
A well insulated building needs wiring carefully !
Efficient electric radiators. No such thing.
It’s a subject I keep harping on about.
1 kilowatt of electric will creat 1 kilowatt of heat. End of.
There are salesmen who will try to convince you that there rad is the most efficient.
It’s all nonsense. Spent £50 or £500 it will still produce the same heat with the same electric.
It’s a subject I keep harping on about.
1 kilowatt of electric will creat 1 kilowatt of heat. End of.
There are salesmen who will try to convince you that there rad is the most efficient.
It’s all nonsense. Spent £50 or £500 it will still produce the same heat with the same electric.
Has anyone graphed storage heaters , new /old
and ,how big they would really need to be to be well insulated to retain heat till it's needed.
(Thinking like a central air solution-all eggs in a well designed basket)
High temperatures + Poor maintenance = Back to tumble drier risks ..
(Snoop cam says you need a service -or you house insurance will be invalid).....
( Wacky ideas for the future )
D
davesparks
Are there? Which type of electric heater is less efficient?
Personally I prefer gas heaters to storage heaters.
Gas from the mains is about 3 % cheaper than electric heaters. There are certain government incentives which make certain heating systems more affordable and therefore more popular. I think heat pumps are starting to become popular.
Gas from the mains is about 3 % cheaper than electric heaters. There are certain government incentives which make certain heating systems more affordable and therefore more popular. I think heat pumps are starting to become popular.
Hi @SparkyHarry, was that a miss type. Should it have been 30 % cheaper or 3 times cheaper maybe.
Either way I agree gas is cheaper than electric. Unless it’s the off peak electric tariff storage heaters, which are plain rubbish.
Perhaps I am getting confused here, between comments on electric storage heaters and electric radiators. I have a couple of 40 year old storage heaters. They are not easy to control, and you can't just switch them on and off at will, obviously, as they are "off-peak" or whatever it's called nowadays. I feel that these are not so "efficient", whilst accepting what Paignton Pete and davesparks say.These are in the hall and living room. The other rooms have plug-in electric radiators and electric towel rads in the bathrooms. These rads operate very quickly, and have thermostats. The house is very well insulated. Thus, for me, the non-storage type are more "efficient"...perhaps "effective" would be a better term?
My recent experience with infrared panel heaters has shown me that in the right space, these are very "effective", easy to install, maintenance free and attractive to look at. I cannot get gas in my house, so electricity is the only option. Using an electric wet system has huge installation hassles, and associated costs. All walls are brick, so if I were to replace the old system i would use infrared as its characteristics suit the property very well.
I appreciate that this may not be the solution for many, but may be worth a look for some.
My recent experience with infrared panel heaters has shown me that in the right space, these are very "effective", easy to install, maintenance free and attractive to look at. I cannot get gas in my house, so electricity is the only option. Using an electric wet system has huge installation hassles, and associated costs. All walls are brick, so if I were to replace the old system i would use infrared as its characteristics suit the property very well.
I appreciate that this may not be the solution for many, but may be worth a look for some.
G
GBDamo
Heat pumps in thoery should win hands down but in practice they dont.
There are many reasons for this but the biggest one for me is our climate. It is too varied and when cold its also often wet. This leads to icing of the coil and unless you are very savvy can cause a lot of damage. In order to overcome this the manufacturers program them on the safe side which means at the time you need it most the heat pump will be using internal heat to defrost the coil.
Ive seen some horrendous electricity bills from people who were sold an "economical" system purely because they never really came out of defrost, i could manually sort them but the programmed defrost never really worked, efficiently.
One of the other issues is responsiveness, they are not and shouldn't be. They should be ticking over maintaining a steady temperature but people like to whack the temp up and feel toasty radiators on their arse, expensive.
They are sold as being more efficient than gas but only in a few instances have i seen it significantly so, especially when you factor in the £7,000+ installatoon costs.
I like the principle of the heat pump but have yet to see it perfected.
There are many reasons for this but the biggest one for me is our climate. It is too varied and when cold its also often wet. This leads to icing of the coil and unless you are very savvy can cause a lot of damage. In order to overcome this the manufacturers program them on the safe side which means at the time you need it most the heat pump will be using internal heat to defrost the coil.
Ive seen some horrendous electricity bills from people who were sold an "economical" system purely because they never really came out of defrost, i could manually sort them but the programmed defrost never really worked, efficiently.
One of the other issues is responsiveness, they are not and shouldn't be. They should be ticking over maintaining a steady temperature but people like to whack the temp up and feel toasty radiators on their arse, expensive.
They are sold as being more efficient than gas but only in a few instances have i seen it significantly so, especially when you factor in the £7,000+ installatoon costs.
I like the principle of the heat pump but have yet to see it perfected.
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