Gas & Water bonded to 1 x 10mm cable?

[Foxyspark]

I have read this previous thread (2012):
gas and water bond, can i use 1 x 10mm cable? - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/gas-and-water-bond-can-i-use-1-x-10mm-cable.66838/
I have a situation where the gas and water enter the building parallel to each other. The gas meter is some 3 meters away from the entry point. Is the above thread still within regs? Do I also have to provide a 10mm earthing bond to the customer side of the gas meter or is entry point acceptable?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

1 x 10mm cable to both gas and water is absolutely fine as long as it is continuous.

 

[westward10]

There is actually no Regulation in BS7671 stating it must be continuous so you can use a single conductor for both services continuous or not.

 

[Foxyspark]

There is actually no Regulation in BS7671 stating it must be continuous so you can use a single conductor for both services continuous or not.

OK @westward10, what about the second bonding to the customer side of the gas meter?

 

[Pete999]

There is actually no Regulation in BS7671 stating it must be continuous so you can use a single conductor for both services continuous or not.

regulation number please if you can

 

[ruston]

Continuous as in A to B, not one complete piece of cable . A well made interconnection between the two bonds is no more at risk than any other high integrity joint.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

regulation number please if you can

You do realise Pete that @westward10 will ask you for a reg number showing that it needs to be continuous . I am desperately trying to find it! However, knowing his experience and knowledge level I fear there is not one

 

[Strima]

There is no reg as far as I can remember stating it must be continuous throughout its run.

 

[Leesparkykent]

You do realise Pete that Westward will ask you for a reg number showing that it needs to be continuous . I am desperately trying to find it! However, knowing his experience and knowledge level I fear there is not one

There isn’t one....I believe it’s written in one of the guidance note books but obviously it’s only guidance. Its obviously considered best practice Incase a clamp is taken off by a wet pants etc but from a regs point of view it’s perfectly acceptable.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

There is actually no Regulation in BS7671 stating it must be continuous so you can use a single conductor for both services continuous or not.

regulation number please if you can

He's right Pete Q & A of the Day – What regulation for bonding adjacent gas and water supplies? - https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/q-day-what-regulation-bonding

He's like Davesparks, hardly ever wrong, but we'll get them one day!! I've only ever managed to prove Davesparks wrong once and that was on a technicality

 

[Leesparkykent]

regulation number please if you can

Think about it Pete if you had a distribution circuit supplying an out building that had extraneous conductive parts. The earthing conductor in the distribution cable is of adequate size to be used as a bonding conductor as well as functioning as a CPC. This is then connected to the earth marshaling terminal at the far end and from this EMT, bonding conductors were run to water and structural steel separately, they would still be using the same single conductor from the EMT to the MET.....There really is no difference in using a bonding conductor from the MET to both gas and water.

 

[ruston]

There isn’t one....I believe it’s written in one of the guidance note books but obviously it’s only guidance. Its obviously considered best practice Incase a clamp is taken off by a wet pants etc but from a regs point of view it’s perfectly acceptable.

I agree, But that could be true of any connection.

 

[Pete999]

There isn’t one....I believe it’s written in one of the guidance note books but obviously it’s only guidance. Its obviously considered best practice Incase a clamp is taken off by a wet pants etc but from a regs point of view it’s perfectly acceptable.

Thanks

 

[Taylortwocities]

There is no reg as far as I can remember stating it must be continuous throughout its run.

Its probably one of those NICEIC "regulations"

 

[Strima]

Its probably one of those NICEIC "regulations"

The law then...

 

[Foxyspark]

Thanks guys for your knowledgeable replies regarding the bonding.
My second question; I have a situation where the gas and water enter a maisonette at the front door, the gas meter is on the first floor some 4 meters away from the point of entry. My question is; do I provide the 10mm bonding within 600mm of gas entry point or at the customer side of the gas meter?
Advise would be much appreciated

 

[Strima]

Copper or plastic pipe on the gas incomer?

 

[Foxyspark]

Steel pipe gas incomer.

 

[davesparks]

OK @westward10, what about the second bonding to the customer side of the gas meter?

Main bonding should be connected to the consumers side of the meter and any isolation valve.

 

[Foxyspark]

Thanks @davesparks. So there is no requirement to provide a bond at the gas entry point to the building if one is provided at the consumer side of the meter

 

[Deleted member 26818]

544.1.2 The main protective bonding connection to any extraneous-conductive-part such as gas, water or other metallic pipework or service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that part into the premises. Where there is a meter, isolation point or union, the connection shall be made to the consumer’s hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600 mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

 

[Pete999]

544.1.2 The main protective bonding connection to any extraneous-conductive-part such as gas, water or other metallic pipework or service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that part into the premises. Where there is a meter, isolation point or union, the connection shall be made to the consumer’s hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600 mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

Nice one that answered that question just right.

 

[davesparks]

Thanks @davesparks. So there is no requirement to provide a bond at the gas entry point to the building if one is provided at the consumer side of the meter

Generally yes, but ultimately it is up to the person signing the certificate to decide if a particular installation requires additional or different arrangements.

 

[Foxyspark]

Generally yes, but ultimately it is up to the person signing the certificate to decide if a particular installation requires additional or different arrangements.

Thanks@davesparks and @spinlondon your knowledge and comments are reassuring .

 

[UNG]

I think the continuous earth conductor bonding gas and water was in an edition of the regs from the distant past

 

[johnduffell]

The bonding conductor would still need crimping or be accessible for inspection if it were joined, you couldn't just hide a terminal block under the floor.
Also bonding should electrically be where the pipe enters the building. But gas has its own special rules about not bonding before the meter, and anyone who removes the meter is supposed to clip a temporary bond on.

 

[Bobster]

The bonding conductor would still need crimping or be accessible for inspection if it were joined, you couldn't just hide a terminal block under the floor.

Also bonding should electrically be where the pipe enters the building. But gas has its own special rules about not bonding before the meter, and anyone who removes the meter is supposed to clip a temporary bond on.

It should, but it doesn't have to be.

 

[davesparks]

The bonding conductor would still need crimping or be accessible for inspection if it were joined, you couldn't just hide a terminal block under the floor.
Also bonding should electrically be where the pipe enters the building. But gas has its own special rules about not bonding before the meter, and anyone who removes the meter is supposed to clip a temporary bond on.

Gas doesn't have its own special rules about bonding, bs7671 says the same thing as it does for all services, it should be after the meter.

 

[johnduffell]

Gas doesn't have its own special rules about bonding, bs7671 says the same thing as it does for all services, it should be after the meter.

fair point I meant special in comparison with generic extraneous conductive parts. but my actual point is it's not the meter that makes it extraneous it;s the fact that it enters from outside the zone, therefore the OPs gas bonding at the point of entry is actually better electrically
For example because anyone who removes the meter without temporary bonding won't be breaking any diverted neutral current in that case)

 

[Norah Nabino]

There is actually no Regulation in BS7671 stating it must be continuous so you can use a single conductor for both services continuous or not.

What do you mean by continuous or not??