Good Luck Mr Damian Skelton (D.Skelton Electrical)

[steve.b]

On the big day tomorrow (6th jan), in the parliamentary debate.

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[Zebra Stripe]

Murdoch, what would constitute not competent? or what would constitute competent?

 

[Octopus]

Murdoch, what would constitute not competent? or what would constitute competent?

A higher level is inspection prior to joining a scheme, a whistle blowing system so "dodgy" sparks can be reported and spot checks on work........

 

[Zebra Stripe]

A higher level is inspection prior to joining a scheme, a whistle blowing system so "dodgy" sparks can be reported and spot checks on work........

Agreed that a scheme member or QS should be competent but where is this line drawn? 2391 although dosnt exist now, not NVQ3 surely?

spot checks on work sounds good but how does that work if you sometime work locally and sometimes not?

 

[trev]

I've had a read through of the report and on first impression it's exactly the fudge that I and many others expected it to be. There's nothing to stop the gravy train, nothing to stop the scams badging up anything that moves, they'll be allowed to sell training courses so they can issue their own NVQ 3s.
So plus ca change, plus cest la meme chose.
I've said it before, the scams exist because the rank and file sparks allow them to.

 

[ipf]

How things change. It used to be the unqualified doing jobs for clients that were doing the trade in. Now it's the 'qualified incompetents'......all above board.
Trying to rebuild houses on crumbling foundations.

 

[Badged01]

Ive gotta tip my hat to anyone who wants to be a QS supervising others work and signing it off without either a full check of what they've done or a trust that they are "competent" to do the job and will complete it to regs!

Once he scrolls his name onto any paperwork and authorises it, then he's as much responsible for the job as if he'd completed it himself .... Mr QS you're right in the firing line for any comebacks!

 

[Zebra Stripe]

You all seem to be set, eyes closed and helter skeltering down a path you believe is righteous, completely unaware what your actually wishing for. A clever man once said in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.....

There will be no implementation of some electrical police by scams or LA, there is no money for it. The LA bugets are being cut every year, they cant afford to look after the poor and elderly, let alone police some fictious ilegal electrical practice, that in your minds seems to be, being pertetrated at every board change.
If you have your way people, what next, the NVQ3 at present cost around 3-6 thousand? will it stop there? Once the "Training providers" realise they have you over a barrell wots next, I wonder??.........if you think this is silly look how quickly the BGB changes to Ammendment 3 the BYB and all the Guidance notes etc.

 

[trev]

We are aware of what we're wishing for Zebra, most of us want an end to the gravy train whereby, for a fee, a suit who has never held a screwdriver in his or her life can deem anyone competent. Most of us want a single register set up by one organisation which will have teeth with which to bite those who are deemed competent but clearly are not.
Most want a system of individual competence, a yardstick by which everyone will be measured instead of a single organ grinder "supervising" any number of monkeys he or she decides is appropriate.
Why is it that domestic electrical systems must be supervised when commercial ones are not? The idea is ludicrous because we have all seen potentially lethal installations in pubs, clubs, restaurants, shops, takeaways etc etc which have been carried out by the proprietors of these establishments (or the clowns they have hired because they know no better or because the clowns are cheap) because it's only a few wires, right? and besides, everyone knows you need 1mm cable for lights and 2.5mm for sockets don't they?

 

[Badged01]

.... everyone knows you need 1mm cable for lights and 2.5mm for sockets don't they?

Stop giving away trade secrets on an open forum ..... now every Tom, Dick and Harry will be carrying out there own DIY :smiley2:

 

[southsea1201]

......and I think you will find trev that any changes will mean parting with a lot more ££££££'s...it's the way of the world ain't it...who pays for spot checks, more training etc etc. Some good old sparks may have their 15th etc...but a more rigorous overseer will have the whole sparkie community in every few years for update training etc. All that will happen is bills go up and Dave down the pub still does work for cash...I know a Dave down the pub..ok he doesn't do CU changes but he does just about everything else.

 

[trev]

Individual competence works perfectly well for Gassafe so why can't it work in our trade? We all know or know of a Dave at the pub mate, that's why I mentioned the enforcement body with teeth. France has a system whereby Dave at the pub is prohibited from carrying out electrical work and it works perfectly well there so why can't it work here.
Gassafe fees are significantly lower than anything the scams hit their members with. Why? Does it cost more to assess a spark than it does for a gas fitter? My guess is not. Do Gassafe offer NVQs? I don't think they do but you can bet your arse that the elctrical scams will be doing them soon (certainly sir, that'll be £6000 please sir. More champers Emma?)

 

[ipf]

We are aware of what we're wishing for Zebra, most of us want an end to the gravy train whereby, for a fee, a suit who has never held a screwdriver in his or her life can deem anyone competent. Most of us want a single register set up by one organisation which will have teeth with which to bite those who are deemed competent but clearly are not.
Most want a system of individual competence, a yardstick by which everyone will be measured instead of a single organ grinder "supervising" any number of monkeys he or she decides is appropriate.
Why is it that domestic electrical systems must be supervised when commercial ones are not? The idea is ludicrous because we have all seen potentially lethal installations in pubs, clubs, restaurants, shops, takeaways etc etc which have been carried out by the proprietors of these establishments (or the clowns they have hired because they know no better or because the clowns are cheap) because it's only a few wires, right? and besides, everyone knows you need 1mm cable for lights and 2.5mm for sockets don't they?

Cheap they are...example...Having a pint in a local club last weekend. 'Can you have a look at this newly installed 5ft wall TV, I can't find the plug' No wonder says I, they've removed the wall light and fed it directly from that. Have to have the others on for the TV to work. 'Qualified spark', supposedly....but how qualified?

 

[Zebra Stripe]

We are aware of what we're wishing for Zebra, most of us want an end to the gravy train whereby, for a fee, a suit who has never held a screwdriver in his or her life can deem anyone competent.

No different from any qualification criterior including all of the following C&G or NVQ or HNC or HND or Degree or masters or PHD

Most of us want a single register set up by one organisation which will have teeth with which to bite those who are deemed competent but clearly are not.

Agreed, but for that to happenen you first have to decide what is competent and what is not, besides the already expensive registration fees would have to rise for a scheme to provide said police force...you gonna pay?? And as already mentioned shall we take the money away from real issues for LA to do it??

Most want a system of individual competence, a yardstick by which everyone will be measured instead of a single organ grinder "supervising" any number of monkeys he or she decides is appropriate.

I agree individual competency, but what is that?

Why is it that domestic electrical systems must be supervised when commercial ones are not? The idea is ludicrous because we have all seen potentially lethal installations in pubs, clubs, restaurants, shops, takeaways etc etc which have been carried out by the proprietors of these establishments (or the clowns they have hired because they know no better or because the clowns are cheap) because it's only a few wires, right? and besides, everyone knows you need 1mm cable for lights and 2.5mm for sockets don't they?

Oh come on domestic and most commercial electrical work is not in the relms of quantom physics, its mostly standard circuit arrangement with some simple mathmatics at most and a bit of memory and craft skill.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Trev mate,

what ever the weather, I hope you stick with it mate. As in your point you made in post 146.

I said it in another post a few days ago but as far as im concerned you are the commander of the spartans

 

[trev]

"No different from any qualification criterior including all of the following C&G or NVQ or HNC or HND or Degree or masters or PHD"

The difference is that there is no vested interest by any of the bodies awarding those qualifications. They set a benchmark, if you reach it you get the qual, if not you fail.
Maybe you should look at the stats for how many people have failed their scam assessment or have been thrown out of their scam for shoddy work.

"Agreed, but for that to happenen you first have to decide what is competent and what is not, besides the already expensive registration fees would have to rise for a scheme to provide said police force...you gonna pay?? And as already mentioned shall we take the money away from real issues for LA to do it??"

The current minimum requirement is way too low, there is nothing to stop a milkman undergoing a 2 hour open book exam then going out and buying a few odds n sods and a couple of books then going out and working in people's homes a week or so later.

"I agree individual competency, but what is that?"

A damn sight more than sitting a 2 hour open book exam.

"Oh come on domestic and most commercial electrical work is not in the relms of quantom physics, its mostly standard circuit arrangement with some simple mathmatics at most and a bit of memory and craft skill."

I completely agree but you're missing the point. Until recently the vast majority of my work was commercial, I didn't have to tell anyone about what I was doing and no one was required to oversee it. I could have been a proper cowboy for all anyone knew. The implication is that domestic electrical systems are more dangerous than commercial ones.