Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

[Dustydazzler]

 

[nicebutdim]

Now i don't have it and not sure whether i'm planning on taking it, but imo the AM2 is more relevant than the NVQ and even the C+G Level 3 qualifications because it actually assesses your ability to do the actual job under real life pressure, in an exam environment, with time restrictions.

I'd contend that it's the only part of modern day training that proves actual ability.

Given how many people complain that standards aren't what they used to be, I'm astounded that anyone would argue against assessment by an external body.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Now i don't have it and not sure whether i'm planning on taking it, but imo the AM2 is more relevant than the NVQ and even the C+G Level 3 qualifications because it actually assesses your ability to do the actual job under real life pressure, in an exam environment, with time restrictions.

There should be no life pressure when working on a job, it's not an exam and does not have time restrictions, it's not a competition, getting it right for the customer is what counts.

 

[swaRRR]

There should be no life pressure when working on a job, it's not an exam and does not have time restrictions, it's not a competition, getting it right for the customer is what counts.

Yeah but the point is if you can't do basic testing or wire up a light on someone else's say so then you're probably not that great at the job and need more experience/confidence. AM2 tests your ability to do these things amongst others. You also get 8 hours so it's not like the countdown clock is being played in your ear while you're doing it.

 

[nicebutdim]

There should be no life pressure when working on a job, it's not an exam and does not have time restrictions, it's not a competition, getting it right for the customer is what counts.

Sometimes life delivers pressure, whether we like it or not. Plenty of sparks go on to work in industries where any shut down will be timed to the minute.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You can manipulate any scenario to suit your argument as much as you like, but if you feel that type of pressure you are in the wrong work place, if a client puts you under that type of pressure walk away, life is too short to put up with unreasonable work practice's or time constraints.

 

[nicebutdim]

No manipulation on my part, but a presentation of simple facts.

There are many situations where time constraints are quite legitimately placed on electrical work and many electricians happily work under those conditions, precisely because they're able to do so safely and competently.

You can argue against the AM2 as much as you like, but the fact remains that is is the only means of independent assessment for electrical trainees. Not having completed the AM2 doesn't mean an electrician is incompetent, but passing it does demonstrate a measurable level of ability that otherwise remains an unknown quantity - hence many employers demanding that more recently qualified electricians have passed it.

Other than the fact that it was set up by a self-appointed body, I'm yet to see any merit in your argument against the AM2. It would appear as though you're unintentionally raising more points in its favour, than against.

 

[Mike Johnson]

No manipulation on my part, but a presentation of simple facts.

Other than the fact that it was set up by a self-appointed body, I'm yet to see any merit in your argument against the AM2. It would appear as though you're unintentionally raising more points in its favour, than against.

And there is the manipulation, I am not against AM2 just pointing out the real facts that it is a so called qualification set up by itself, which in effect is no qualification at all, you are obviously a devotee of the AM2 and have a vested interest in promoting it's virtues, if any, there is no point in carrying on this conversation as we are both entrenched on our own views, so will leave it there.

 

[nicebutdim]

And there is the manipulation, I am not against AM2 just pointing out the real facts that it is a so called qualification set up by itself, which in effect is no qualification at all, you are obviously a devotee of the AM2 and have a vested interest in promoting it's virtues, if any, there is no point in carrying on this conversation as we are both entrenched on our own views, so will leave it there.

I will indeed leave the issue here as you appear to have no substantative argument worth countering, although I do feel that some points need to be addressed first.

At no time have I manipulated your comments and have simply argued against that which you posted. I further resent the accusation of manipulation when, in the same paragraph, you go on to make claims that are very much intended to manipulate my own comments and so I'll address those accusations.

1. I am not a 'devotee of the AM2', given that I'm still a trainee and have yet to get to the stage of sitting the assessment.

2. More importantly; I have no 'vested interest in promoting the virtues of AM2' and would caution against making such allegations on a public forum. Given your statements extolling the virtues of a university education, I expected better from you - not only better, but also wiser commentary.

If you're a man of your word, we can consider the subject closed.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I will indeed leave the issue here as you appear to no substantative argument worth countering, although I do feel that some points need to be addressed first.

That is manipulative.

 

[nicebutdim]

That is manipulative.

Perhaps it was and perhaps I delivered what you asked for.

Your previous comment was ad hominem and I'm not sure why you might expect that it should have gone unchallenged. It would have been much better for you to not have stooped to the level of personal attack and unsubstantiated allegation.

If you have an argument against AM2, I'll be happy to read it. If personal attack is going to be the basis of that argument, I suggest you heed your own advice and park the topic at this point.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Can you point out where I have personally attacked you?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I find time pressures do apply for my work (domestic mainly). You can't have the power off in someone's home indefinitely, the freezer'll be defrosting, and the kids (and adults) will start whining that there's no wifi. Then there's the cost factor, to either you or the customer, should the job take too long.

 

[DPG]

There should be no life pressure when working on a job, it's not an exam and does not have time restrictions, it's not a competition, getting it right for the customer is what counts.

A company is most definitely in competition with other companies working in the same area.

And if you have got through your working ife without ever feeling under any pressure then I am very very surprised.

 

[pirate]

It is very difficult, in my experience, to avoid pressure in your working life. What you can do is try to minimise it, but of course you may need to turn down work if you think a particular job is going to give you pressure. Conversely, you might take on a seemingly simple job only for it to turn out an absolute nightmare. A crystal ball would be very useful...
A mate called me a few weeks ago to say that the builder he had been awaiting for 8 weeks was coming that afternoon, so could i pop round and replace the sockets in his garden room, right now. I said no...why should I have to rush the job cos Bob is standing over me wanting to get in and out in an hour? He told Bob to come back the following week, I did the job in a leisurely way, and it all got sorted in the end. It's easy for a retired bloke like I am to manage the possible stress, but I learned during my working life that it's ok to say "no"...and the benefits can be considerable.

 

[nicebutdim]

Can you point out where I have personally attacked you?

...you are obviously a devotee of the AM2 and have a vested interest in promoting it's virtues...

Untrue and entirely without foundation.

I pointed out that not completing it may limit future career options for trainees. I have no vested interest in the AM2 and would be quite content to use another means of assessment, if one was available.

As a matter of fact, I'd be very happy to take your advice and head back to study at a university - perhaps you could point out a suitable course that would provide the relevant learning and skills required of an electrician?

In the history of pointless conversations, this must rank quite highly. Someone asks what the differences are between all three versions of the AM2 and you shoot off on a personal crusade against the only current means of independent assessment for trainee electricians. Rather than hinder the progress of trainess, perhaps you could focus that energy on helping them.