Got myself in a pickle.... EICR remedials

[littlespark]

Been asked to do remedials on holiday cottages after recent EICR.
Modern consumer units, MK Sentry, but no RCD protection on anything.
Bit of a brain fog moment, but what would the rest of you do in adding RCD protection? Which circuits? Just to swap MCB for RCBO

Both cottages are identical.

DB1

Cooker. Change it, as there's a socket
Kitchen rfc. Change it.
Downstairs rfc. Change it This was the only circuit on EICR that was classed C2, the rest C3.... think there was a mistake.
Upstairs rfc. Change it
2 lighting circuits. Should they be changed? or just upstairs lights as it feeds the bathrooms?
Smoke detectors. Dont change.

DB2

Heating. 24 hour and storage.
3 storage heaters downstairs. Not change.
2 bedroom panel heaters. Not change
2 towel rails. one in each bathroom.. change because special location?
Immersion. No change

So minimum 4 RCBO's per cottage just for sockets, up to 8 if i include lighting and everything in bathrooms?

 

[timhoward]

Was the bonding situation ok in the bathrooms? In other words do you need all circuits in bathrooms to be RCD protected because there's no supplementary bonding?

 

[pc1966]

Downstairs rfc. Change it This was the only circuit on EICR that was classed C2, the rest C3.... think there was a mistake.

Probably as the inspector assumed they might be used with extension lead for outdoor stuff?

 

[timhoward]

At first glance this is one where the letter of the rules, and the best thing to do might be different things.
Someone has inspected, and decided what needs action. (Maybe the downstairs RFC got a C2 because it was obviously being used outside at a guess.)
Just providing evidence that you have fixed the C2's and any C1's technically does what is required for the customer.
It becomes hard if you disagree with any of them, or see other things that you would have given C2's or worse.

I tend to write a covering letter with photos for this kind of job, sometimes explaining why an original C2 isn't in fact one (e.g. someone has given a C2 for out of date smoke alarms!)

 

[littlespark]

Probably as the inspector assumed they might be used with extension lead for outdoor stuff?

As would the cooker circuit, with a socket… and the kitchens own rfc.

Was the bonding situation ok in the bathrooms? In other words do you need all circuits in bathrooms to be RCD protected because there's no supplementary bonding?

All bonding in place. According to the report.

 

[bigspark17]

Are you able to get mk rcbos now?? Surely this is a board swap with full rcd protection or walk away!?!?

 

[timhoward]

All bonding in place. According to the report.

In that case I'd probably leave DB2 alone (having checked the bonding for myself!)

If you've only been asked to do remedials you probably need to explain that it's a false economy only doing remedials and why.
e.g. this wouldn't protect guests who change a light bulb and get it wrong.

I think TLC sell Type A MK RCBO's and it's only about £75 more in parts to change the lot.
I'd also probably quote for a Fusebox with SPD and offer bringing them right up to date.

BTW I'd probably put the smokes on with one of the lighting circuits so they know if the circuit has tripped or isn't staying on.

 

[pc1966]

As would the cooker circuit, with a socket… and the kitchens own rfc.

It might depend on the layout of the house, for example, if there are sockets in the hallway, etc, that are obvious for outside use but the kitchen is not directly on to the road/garden access route.

But without seeing it then just speculating!

 

[littlespark]

Had a quick look this morning in one of the properties.

There is only one door, and the kitchen is at back of house, so it’s more likely they would use a socket close to the door.

So I could just change one in each house, just to cover those downstairs sockets…


As they’re being used as holiday let’s, I’d be tempted to make them as safe as possible…
Even the heaters!!?


I did notice the mains smoke detectors have been superseded by the owners with cheapy (not aico) battery interconnected units… (for Scottish rules) but the mains ones are still there top and bottom of stair.

Not how I would have done it… but it shows likelihood of owners paying out for 8 rcbo’s when they only need 1

 

[timhoward]

Doing remedials for someone else's EICR is always difficult.
I'd have in back of mind that they are making nice money from renting these places out, and I'd at least try and talk them into protecting all sockets circuits, whatever is actually required by the EICR.

An argument you may wish consider putting to the owner is that dragging it up to the 16th edition requirements and providing RCD protection for sockets supplying equipment outside (1991?) isn't really doing much to improve safety, and at least dragging it up to the 17th edition requirements (2008?) and covering all sockets would be far preferable!
Frankly they should want their guests to be safe and let you change the board!

 

[littlespark]

The mk sentry board is of newer type, so getting RCBOs isn’t a problem.

30 quid per RCBO is.
When they’re scrimping on smoke detectors.


There will come a point where a lack of rcd protection on any circuit will warrant a C2…

And there’s still another cottage that needs tested…

 

[timhoward]

They are £17.40 each inc vat at TLC:

32A 30mA RCBO - MK (Type A) B Curve | MK_Sentry (H6836S)

Says Type A and suitable for Sentry
not looked at delivery costs though

 

[cliffed]

Rcbo would also be additional protection for cabling in walls & also sockets

 

[Welchyboy1]

when your talking about swapping out that many rcbos I would just price to replace the board,you will no doubt only get someone test it next time and code 2 the cables in walls that are still unprotected and then you will get a moody phone call demanding why the circuits were not appropriately protected last time you were supposed to ’fix’ everything

why did you not get the original EICR work and only the remedials?

not one of these testing companies that just do the testing?