Greg Barkers Tweet. RHI

[Worcester]

not guilty, that's a DECC thing, I managed to get the MCS document tweaked slightly on a technical point, which I didn't think was bad considering I'm not actually on that steering group, and didn't even attend a meeting about it.

I wasn't being serious at that point

I raised the same objections re swimming pools and solar for space heating, and I think there's an understanding that these issues will need addressing, but nobody wanted to delay RHI any further by attempting to change this before the launch. Basically RHI is what it is for now,but there's a hope / expectation that some of these issues will be picked up and addressed at the first review of the RHI / MCS documents. Better a flawed scheme launched now than waiting another year for perfection or something like that.... and after 4 years of waiting, I can understand that point of view.

Agree wholeheartedly - our phone hasn't stopped since we notified all of our prospects on Wednesday pm, now they see it as a reality, they just want to get on with it

 

[BruceB]

As for fully functional, I've read the document and it's all there, although inconsistent with best installation design in a few instances.

They are aware about this and a revision / consultation process is already scheduled for late summer to pick up those anomolies.

e.g:
1) Bi-valency, if you use a biomass boiler as the bi-valent part of a heat pump installation, no RHI for the biomass, so still encouraging fossil based oil/lpg for that part. - nonsense!
2)Solar thermal: if it goes into a thermal store, or the excess is used to heat a pool, then the whole solar thermal system doesn't qualify for the RHI so no payment at all..

I found myself going round in circles in the regulations.

Can you point me to be bit that says no bi-valency HP/biomass?

Does that also apply to commercial RHI?

I see what you mean about thermal store. Although you could argue that by the time in the year solar thermal is producing anything useful the heating will be off.

There is no 'relevant date' provision for the solar thermal / thermal store point, so presumably those historic MCS accredited installations that feed into thermal stores simply cannot claim RHI until the rules change?

 

[TedM]

I think the bivalency part comes from 3(c) and 12(3). You can have HP and biomass but only one of them can be accredited for RHI.

Eligibility criteria

3. A plant which is a biomass plant, heat pump or solar thermal plant is eligible for accreditation where it meets the requirements (“the eligibility criteria”) set out in—
(a) regulation 4, 5, or 6 (whichever is applicable to the plant);
(b) regulations 7 to 11;
(c) if the plant is not the first and only plant to provide heat to a property, regulation 12; and
(d) if regulation 13 requires that the heat generated by the plant must be metered, regulation 14.


Requirements where more than one plant provides heat to a property

12. (1) The requirements referred to in regulation 3(c) are that where the plant (“plant A”) provides heat to a property to which any other plant provides heat or has previously provided heat, in relation to that other plant, or if there is more than one in relation to each such plant, (“plant B”),—
(a) paragraph (2) or (3) applies; and
(b) paragraph (4) applies.

(2) This paragraph applies if plant B—
(a) is not, and has not at any time been, an accredited domestic plant; and
(b) is not a plant for which an accreditation application has been made and has not been rejected.

(3) This paragraph applies if plant B is, or has previously been, an accredited domestic plant and—
(a) either plant A or plant B (but not both) is a solar thermal plant; or
(b) plant B is an original plant and plant A is a replacement plant.

(4) This paragraph applies if plant B—
(a) is not, and has not at any time been, an accredited RHI installation; and
(b) is not a plant for which an application for accreditation has been made and not withdrawn by the applicant (and accreditation has not been refused) under the Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme Regulations 2011(1).

The style of wording of this legislation takes the biscuit. DECC always had the intention for RHI that you could have solar thermal for water heating plus one other technology for space heating but the drafting of this is about as obscure as it gets.

 

[BruceB]

Thanks for looking through that. They were the sections I alighted on. But I must be being slow tonight because it is still confusing me!

 

[Worcester]

@BruceB, @TedM, as usual got it in full!

The bottom line is they will only pay for ONE renewable heating technology, unless the other one is Solar Thermal

12(2) means that you claimed or submitted an RHI claim for the other plant (the back up source)
12(3)(a) is the get out clause for Solar Thermal
12(3)(b) means that you can update / replace / swap a plant that you were claiming RHI for, for another one (don't know if your 7 years start again, - I would presume that they would with the then current tariff ) - means that you could put a more efficient system in later one and get new payments..
12(4) is effectively the same as 12(2) except it relates to claiming for the other plant under the non-domestic scheme


Clear as MUD

 

[John Allen]

So it looks like the launch of RHI is this Wednesday according to a report in The Sunday Times..........

 

[Gavin A]

utterly ridiculous that they launch things in this way - they should be sending the guidance around all installers at least 14 days prior to the actual public launch date, so we have a chance to get our staff trained prior to the phone starting to ring.

 

[Greenday]

I'm just happy to finally see this happening. Better role the sleeves up and get stuck in. Now where do we start :auto:

 

[John Allen]

Not sure if you have all seen the big press launch but RHI went live this morning, link to the OFGEM site here https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/domestic-renewable-heat-incentive , be patient though as it seems like it is about to crash. There must be a lot of legacy installs to process and I wonder how soon we will see the first digression!

 

[Worcester]

Ok Here's the big one!!

UK Biomass boiler and Stove manufacturers told they had until August to sort out the Air Quality requirements yet see here:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmen...ing-systems-domestic-renewable-heat-incentive

Biomass Boiler:

• Must use a liquid to provide space (eg,room) heating.
• Must be designed and installed to use solid biomass fuel.
• Must comply with Air quality requirements.

Biomass Stove:

• Must be designed and installed to use with wood pellets. (Log burning stoves are not eligible).
• Must use a liquid filled heat exchanger, enclosed within the system.
• Must comply with air quality requirements.

Which then goes on to talk about Air Quality

and most important this list : https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/domestic-rhi-product-eligibility-list here's the actual list: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/87129/domesticrhiproducteligibilitylist.xlsx

Al lot of suppliers manufacturers aren't going to be happy with this apparent change in starting terms.
Of the 1000 Biomass products listed, 387 are now ineligible, 469 are 'to be determined' what ever that means, and only 144 are currently eligible !!!!

I'm presuming that seeing as they seem to have selected that list from an obscure 'unnofficial' one by the pompous HETAS crowd : RHI ECLIST yet if you hadn;t listed your product there, it wasn't included - oh and by the way they never told anyone they were going to us that list, and none of the manufacturers (unless you used HETAS to certify your product) where even aware that the list existed a week ago.

BMW moment over...

 

[Worcester]

There must be a lot of legacy installs to process and I wonder how soon we will see the first digression!

Most of them will have to wait

You will be able to apply three months after launch (from 9 July 2014).

You will be able to apply six months after launch (from 9 October 2014).

[TH="align: left"]If you applied for RHPP funding before 20 May 2013:
[/TH]

[TH="align: left"]If you applied for RHPP funding after 20 May 2013:[/TH]

So better to have waited a couple of weeks, rather than 6 months, though of course they did get the lumps sum RHPP if they were quick enough.

 

[TedM]

Not so straight-forward.

There are two separate eligibility lists - for pre 9th April 2014 and another for systems commissioned today and later.

The first list has 4614 eligible products and the 'current' one has only 3731.

Products currently listed as ineligible can submit additional evidence that might get their status changed.

 

[Worcester]

Thanks TedM I realised that, It just makes it difficult, when with a little bit more communication with the industry they could have made it a whole lot smoother. Guess that's politicians for you!, Lets hope they don't mess around with it too quickly, they've had enough time to sort it. - The main challenge with the biomass side was changing their minds over the need for Air quality certificates at launch - nearly all those listed as eligible where certified by Hetas (and on Hetas's unofficial list) - couldn't possibly talk about bias or naivety there then..