Ground floor lighting trips out mcb

[Biggy]

Hi everyone,

My first post but straight in with a couple of issues.

I'll start with a 6amp MCB that keeps tripping out relating to ground floor lights.
For your info:

There is 10 x 3w led recessed lights in Kitchen, 8 x 3w led recessed lights ,plus a main central Led light (approx 100watt equivalent ) in the room next to the kitchen and then the same amount of lights and Main central light in the Back room. I would say the combined wattage including two outside lights (40watt each) will be around 480w so let's call it 500watt on the ground floor.

From my understanding a 60w bulb draws around 0.5amp so in effect 30 of the 60w bulbs (around 1800watt combined ) would require a 15amp breaker which would be comfortable, so based on this theory is the 6amp MCB actually overload on 500watts on Ground floor and this tripping the breaker .

The breaker does not trip immediately as can take 5-10mins sometimes longer, and in some instances it has tripped even when ground floor lights have been OFF.

The joist spaces have all been insulated with rockwool if this makes any difference as I want to eliminate any possibility before I start questioning my electrician who advises that maybe I should fit a 15amp breaker in as he feels 6amp is less power for 30 odd lights .

Can anyone shed LIGHT on this

I'll come to the second issue after I can get a solution to this.

Sorry for the lengthy explanation but I know there's nothing more frustrating than not arming knowledgeable people will full info and expecting solutions. Hope I've not missed anything out.

Hope to get a few responses and guidance as I have basic understanding of electrics.

Thanks

 

[Strima]

In your two photos, the cooker MCB seems badly out of alignment in the detailed close-up photo. That suggest that it was not fitted correctly or its mounting is damaged and it should be inspected by a qualified electrician.

Looking at the photo the cover isn't correctly fitted causing the MCBs to push out of alignment when the cover is screwed into place.

 

[alasdairp]

Looking at the photo the cover isn't correctly fitted causing the MCBs to push out of alignment when the cover is screwed into place.

That's what I thought - so the cover was removed and replaced between taking the two photos... by whom, I wonder? It is quite a long way out of alignment so the plastic DIN rail grippers will be under considerable stress and strain.

 

[Strima]

That's what I thought - so the cover was removed and replaced between taking the two photos... by whom, I wonder? It is quite a long way out of alignment so the plastic DIN rail grippers will be under considerable stress and strain.

I thought the first photo was a stock one from the internet?

To poorly fit a cover like that shows a lack of consideration and makes me wonder what the rest of the installation is like???

 

[Midwest]

You lot need to visit the real world, its BG. Lucky the OP hasn't got an MK leaning tower of Pisa CU.

 

[Biggy]

Did you reply to my query #18?

Sorry here the link for the type of lights I bought :3w LED Recessed Lighting Panel Ceiling Down Light Ultra Slim Round Cool White | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/3w-LED-Recessed-Lighting-Panel-Ceiling-Down-Light-Ultra-Slim-Round-Cool-White/649349315?iid=162353285306&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fp%25252F3w-LED-Recessed-Lighting-Panel-Ceiling-Down-Light-Ultra-Slim-Round-Cool-White%25252F649349315%25253Fiid%25253D162353285306%252526chn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D162353285306%2526targetid%253D520699183082%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9046668%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1594021645%2526adgroupid%253D59100101206%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-520699183082%2526abcId%253D1139126%2526merchantid%253D113600570%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQiA05zhBRCMARIsACKDWje26zCduM1wLMwhol9qT1l64nOEnsPHFNszKfmVyZz99b7Py3B-QuoaAvg_EALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1799764726918%2526rvr_ts%253Dfb488ffa1670aca00b92312ffffe7fbe

 

[Biggy]

Yes, the CU cover is not screwed in properly and I only found out after I was doing some work in the basement and hammering something into the wall and the cover just fell off !

I see that the breakers are aligned very poorly and yes this electrician seemed to slack in neat and responsible workmanship.

The hammering by the way was nowhere near any sort of wiring so nothing to do with the breaker tripping.

Could it be that the breakers are not in properly or loose connections from the CU side of things ?
He hasn't turned up as promised and not answering my calls now, I sense he has realised he has made a blunder somewhere and maybe knows there more work involved for him to find the root cause and just cutting off my calls.

Where do I stand with this if I don't get anything forthcoming from him considering it's brand new wiring installation?

 

[Strima]

I think you may have to bite the bullet and get someone else in. Was the installing spark a member of any scheme such as NICEIC, STROMA etc?

 

[Gary K]

Suggest that you call him from a number that he does not recognize if he is cutting you off.

 

[alasdairp]

Sorry, but this reply is going to be very negative for you. I would never go for cheap Ebay units made by a unknown Chinese firm - especially for ceiling installed light fixtures. Could even be a fire hazard. The data sheet has clear mistakes in it. I also personally do not like super bright white LED lights - too harsh for me for most purposes.
You write:
"The electrician used his friend to come and certify it off and does this mean there is a possibility the certificate has just been issued without really having a proper test done to check."

Look up this "friend's" Registered Number which will be on the Certificate. Check with and complain to the Approved Organisation whose name will be on the Certificate. The work was "notifiable" to the Local Authority - that is a legal requirement under Part P Building Regulations for a new consumer unit and new installed lighting circuits. Was that done? You should check with them - and, although they may not be very sympathetic if it was not done, they will probably help persue the "Electrician".

I don't know how someone else could properly 'certify' that the LED lumaires were fitted and wired correctly after the installation was complete. The small electronic transformers (230 volts to c. 24 volts) need to be fitted and wired correctly with suitable cable and connectors. You certainly should NOT increase the MCB rating from 6A!

Sorry to say it, but you may have given yourself a bit of a problem. Please do not ignore this - as I said it may have serious insurance implications if the wiring or LED units cause a fire - you may not be insured. You need to check the validity of the Certificate. There are non approved and uncertified scammers around who enter false details. Go to Trading Standards if necessary. In the New Year, if this is not resolved soon, I strongly recommend that you need to get a good fully certified and recommended local electrician or electrical contractor in to see the installation and give advice as to what you need to do next.

 

[Midwest]

Did you reply to my query #18?

Lots of long very long replies, but jack ---- to mine. Possibliy out on the raggerdly edge, but worth consdeartation. Can you hear me mother, testsin testing.
PS Tired & off to bed, can't even be ared with aotu spell cick

 

[alasdairp]

Lots of long very long replies, but jack **** to mine. Possibliy out on the raggerdly edge, but worth consdeartation. Can you hear me mother, testsin testing.
PS Tired & off to bed, can't even be ared with aotu spell cick

see Biggy's #50 a couple of posts ago

 

[Toneyz]

Just another thought; seems a fair bit of led lighting on one circuit, wonder what make & how they are switched?

It is a possible assumption and if the E.L.I. permits a C type MCB due to the nature of the switched load. But, what confuses me is it tripping out with no load unless a faulty MCB. Maybe it's been forced on after tripping on switching the LED load that has caused its mechanism to fail.

 

[Toneyz]

Are the LED light fittings covered with insulation?

 

[Midwest]

see Biggy's #50 a couple of posts ago

See my #18 a couple of pages ago.

 

[Biggy]

Midwest, I have replied to your post with a link to the type of led they are. I don't know what you mean by how they are switched ( not on a dimmer if that's what you mean ) . Also I am trying to reply by quoting in responses but when I do I can't see the option of posting the reply so have to just reply at the end of the posts.

@anthonybragg the light fittings themselves aren't covered with insulation ( I guess you mean fire rated covers by that ) . The wiring is simply fed into connector blocks from ceilings and the led have a brown and blue wire only which have been connected to the block also.

@alisdairp - thanks for that. The EIC cert does have the certifier 6 digit ID number and name and address so I will be seeing him in the new year and questioning why its been signed off as fine when its actually tripping . I won't put a higher amp in that's for sure.

The electrician himself works for a company and was recommended by a colleague at work so I went with him purely on recommendation.

In meantime I will turn off CU power and check every light switch and light to see if there's any loose wire on ground floor and if it all looks fine then it may be a frayed wire somewhere in between the joists (I did point 3 out before everything was boarded up ) which were replaced but now I feel there maybe others .
Also he tacked in the wires against the wall in a couple places using nails which were then bent over the wires to hold them in place but I did check and they were loose enough just to hold the wires in place so not cutting into any wires.

Just remembered the above now so hoping these aren't the cause too.
I wasn't there most of the time as was at work so he has made me very concerned now .

If theirs no joy just after the New Year I will simply report him to his workplace , Building control, NIC, and also the tester will be reported and will see how far that takes me , otherwise more costs to correct this will be a harsh lesson learnt.

All the best to you All and a Happy New Year in advance if I don't get back til Wednesday now.

Thankyou to each and every one of you for your input.