Grounding and bonding swimming pool pump

[Mike57]

Need some help please. Got a brain teaser for my first post. My pool pump motor cratered over 4th of July. It was working fine and started to sound like it had gravel in it. I turned it off at the timer to backwash and the breaker tripped. She was locked up. Since it was 8 years old I took it to a local motor repair shop to be rebuilt. After 5 days with no word I called. It was ready to go. They swapped the pump over to the new baldor 1hp single phase motor. The connection box on the side had a dozen different colored wires sticking out. The first two motors I replaced only had two terminals so I asked which wires to use. The shop owner connected it to a test bench at 240 volts and said use the blue and yellow wires, that brown was ground. I asked for a schematic or diagram but he didn’t have one.

Took it home mounted it, plumbed it and connected to timer. Started, ran great while I primed the pump. Filled with water, turned motor on, ran a few seconds and lost prime. Repeated a couple of times thinking just air in lines after sitting 5 days. After a few tries, motor began surging alternating between slow spin humming to normal rpm’s. I switched it off and rechecked connections. Voltmeter on timer terminals showed only 120 volts and it bit me. Took some insulated pliers and flipped switch off. Checked breakers, which aren’t GFI, and one was tripped. I turned them off and reset them. Turned pump on and did it again.

I wired it up exactly as the old one other than nutting line side to blue/yellow wires instead of sticking them in a terminal and tightening them down. I flipped it off instantly and rechecked everything. Note: the brown wire (ground?) was on the green screw on the motor case. When I bought the house in 1994 it’s was already wired. 10/2 with ground out to pump. Motor was only 6 amps at 240v but was close to 150 feet from main panel.

Now it gets interesting. I could smell something getting hot. I ran back to the panel in the garage and one side had tripped again and I turned remaining breaker off. Now, I noticed it was a 30 amp breaker. It’s what I call a slim line. Like 4 breakers in the space of two. 1 and 4 were the pool and 2 and 3 ganged together for the gate opener motor at the end of the drive way. Tracing everything back to the source eliminating all connections along the way I decided the breaker was bad. Okay off to the supply house. They didn’t have gfi’s like that so I got the same style figuring to do the GFI’s once I got it going. Plugged back in, wired it up and got to questioning my grounds. The $125 motor was a good match except all the lead wires.

Should I run the ground from the motor case up to the timer switch ground terminal and tie to the line ground? And as for bonding all metal with a bare solid wire, is that acceptable 10 feet away from pool? What do I connect it to and how? To the neutral? At this point I’m debating adding a sub panel I can put a GFI in and buying an entire new “pool” pump and motor assembly. If I do all that I’ll hire an qualified electrician to help me.

What does the group think? Can I salvage it or rip it all out, drop some serious cash and put it all back in new? Sorry for the long read and I appreciate any suggestions. BTW the frogs and algae are enjoying the 20,000 gallons of dark green nasty water.

 

[Megawatt]

Need some help please. Got a brain teaser for my first post. My pool pump motor cratered over 4th of July. It was working fine and started to sound like it had gravel in it. I turned it off at the timer to backwash and the breaker tripped. She was locked up. Since it was 8 years old I took it to a local motor repair shop to be rebuilt. After 5 days with no word I called. It was ready to go. They swapped the pump over to the new baldor 1hp single phase motor. The connection box on the side had a dozen different colored wires sticking out. The first two motors I replaced only had two terminals so I asked which wires to use. The shop owner connected it to a test bench at 240 volts and said use the blue and yellow wires, that brown was ground. I asked for a schematic or diagram but he didn’t have one.

Took it home mounted it, plumbed it and connected to timer. Started, ran great while I primed the pump. Filled with water, turned motor on, ran a few seconds and lost prime. Repeated a couple of times thinking just air in lines after sitting 5 days. After a few tries, motor began surging alternating between slow spin humming to normal rpm’s. I switched it off and rechecked connections. Voltmeter on timer terminals showed only 120 volts and it bit me. Took some insulated pliers and flipped switch off. Checked breakers, which aren’t GFI, and one was tripped. I turned them off and reset them. Turned pump on and did it again.

I wired it up exactly as the old one other than nutting line side to blue/yellow wires instead of sticking them in a terminal and tightening them down. I flipped it off instantly and rechecked everything. Note: the brown wire (ground?) was on the green screw on the motor case. When I bought the house in 1994 it’s was already wired. 10/2 with ground out to pump. Motor was only 6 amps at 240v but was close to 150 feet from main panel.

Now it gets interesting. I could smell something getting hot. I ran back to the panel in the garage and one side had tripped again and I turned remaining breaker off. Now, I noticed it was a 30 amp breaker. It’s what I call a slim line. Like 4 breakers in the space of two. 1 and 4 were the pool and 2 and 3 ganged together for the gate opener motor at the end of the drive way. Tracing everything back to the source eliminating all connections along the way I decided the breaker was bad. Okay off to the supply house. They didn’t have gfi’s like that so I got the same style figuring to do the GFI’s once I got it going. Plugged back in, wired it up and got to questioning my grounds. The $125 motor was a good match except all the lead wires.

Should I run the ground from the motor case up to the timer switch ground terminal and tie to the line ground? And as for bonding all metal with a bare solid wire, is that acceptable 10 feet away from pool? What do I connect it to and how? To the neutral? At this point I’m debating adding a sub panel I can put a GFI in and buying an entire new “pool” pump and motor assembly. If I do all that I’ll hire an qualified electrician to help me.

What does the group think? Can I salvage it or rip it all out, drop some serious cash and put it all back in new? Sorry for the long read and I appreciate any suggestions. BTW the frogs and algae are enjoying the 20,000 gallons of dark green nasty water.

A picture of the motor would be nice and you should have gotten some kind of instructions with your motor. Some of the motor leads are for different RPMs. I have never heard of the brown wire being your ground. Install an exterior ground connecting to your motor bolts and back to the panel and don’t use the brown wire.

 

[Mike57]

A picture of the motor would be nice and you should have gotten some kind of instructions with your motor. Some of the motor leads are for different RPMs. I have never heard of the brown wire being your ground. Install an exterior ground connecting to your motor bolts and back to the panel and don’t use the brown wire.

Sure. I’ll post some tomorrow. Thanks. The rep for the motor rebuilding shop said it was 3450rpm. He had little 12 volt motors for RVs and others I could sit in. Third one I’ve got from them. He said brand new but didn’t have the box or install manual. Brown wire got warm when only one breaker tripped. So I disconnected it. I know a couple of commercial electricians but they’re so busy I’m low priority. Keep putting me off. Thought I’d post on here see if I get a bite. Thanks for your time.

 

[Mike57]

A picture of the motor would be nice and you should have gotten some kind of instructions with your motor. Some of the motor leads are for different RPMs. I have never heard of the brown wire being your ground. Install an exterior ground connecting to your motor bolts and back to the panel and don’t use the brown wire.

Here are some pics of the motor wiring. I didn’t realize until I had came inside that the infamous brown wire was still tucked up in the connection box. Dark outside now. So visualize a brown one on the photo. I looked up the specs which at 240 volts looks like blue and yellow are line side wires. Basically what I’m trying to do is to connect the motor to the timer. Question is how do I ground the motor, which wire would be the ground. Likewise what bonding is needed since I’m using it on an in ground swimming pool.

 

[Mike57]

Here are some pics of the motor wiring. I didn’t realize until I had came inside that the infamous brown wire was still tucked up in the connection box. Dark outside now. So visualize a brown one on the photo. I looked up the specs which at 240 volts looks like blue and yellow are line side wires. Basically what I’m trying to do is to connect the motor to the timer. Question is how do I ground the motor, which wire would be the ground. Likewise what bonding is needed since I’m using it on an in ground swimming pool.

Oops, got Bambi’s mom in there. Fat old fingers.

 

[Megawatt]

Here are some pics of the motor wiring. I didn’t realize until I had came inside that the infamous brown wire was still tucked up in the connection box. Dark outside now. So visualize a brown one on the photo. I looked up the specs which at 240 volts looks like blue and yellow are line side wires. Basically what I’m trying to do is to connect the motor to the timer. Question is how do I ground the motor, which wire would be the ground. Likewise what bonding is needed since I’m using it on an in ground swimming pool.

I see a green wire so that is your ground. Read the motor connection sticker on the pecker head and wire it for high voltage. Worse case run an external ground and just zip tie to the flex

 

[Mike57]

“on the pecker head”? Is that slang electrician for something? Sorry, new one on me. I’m usually the pecker head. Just to make sure I understand. I have a ground from the panel to the timer, connect it to green from motor?

I didn’t think brown was a ground but figgered the motor guy knew what he was taking about. I should have googled a schematic before I even started. I appreciate it, just trying to learn.

 

[davesparks]

“on the pecker head”? Is that slang electrician for something? Sorry, new one on me. I’m usually the pecker head. Just to make sure I understand. I have a ground from the panel to the timer, connect it to green from motor?

I didn’t think brown was a ground but figgered the motor guy knew what he was taking about. I should have googled a schematic before I even started. I appreciate it, just trying to learn.

'pecker head' is a term used in the USA to refer to what the rest of the world would call a motor terminal box.

 

[Mike57]

'pecker head' is a term used in the USA to refer to what the rest of the world would call a motor terminal box.

Whew, that’s a relief. Thanks. We’ve got a lot in the utility industry too. But pecker head wasn’t an electrical component.

 

[Megawatt]

“on the pecker head”? Is that slang electrician for something? Sorry, new one on me. I’m usually the pecker head. Just to make sure I understand. I have a ground from the panel to the timer, connect it to green from motor?

I didn’t think brown was a ground but figgered the motor guy knew what he was taking about. I should have googled a schematic before I even started. I appreciate it, just trying to learn.

Good luck and yes I’ve always said pecker head on motors. Just a habit.

 

[Mike57]

Good luck and yes I’ve always said pecker head on motors. Just a habit.

Slow catching up. Got it all back together and up and running. I attached the ground to the motor frame and it just hummed when turned on. I turned every thing back off started studying the diagram again. After pulling the wires back out and retraining them in a little neater I pulled the isolated mystery brown out. I got my glasses on and noticed that there were two other brown wires tied together of different gauges. Sure enough they had the “J” on them. So I temped the third brown J wire with them and flipped her on. It spun up and purred like a kitten. I made a good connection on them, tucked it all back in the “Pecker head” neatly and buttoned it up. Mission accomplished. Thanks to Megawatt and other contributors for help knocking it out. Appreciate it all.

 

[Megawatt]

Slow catching up. Got it all back together and up and running. I attached the ground to the motor frame and it just hummed when turned on. I turned every thing back off started studying the diagram again. After pulling the wires back out and retraining them in a little neater I pulled the isolated mystery brown out. I got my glasses on and noticed that there were two other brown wires tied together of different gauges. Sure enough they had the “J” on them. So I temped the third brown J wire with them and flipped her on. It spun up and purred like a kitten. I made a good connection on them, tucked it all back in the “Pecker head” neatly and buttoned it up. Mission accomplished. Thanks to Megawatt and other contributors for help knocking it out. Appreciate it all.

We are all proud of you and your never quit attitude. Congratulations

 

[Mike57]

We are all proud of you and your never quit attitude. Congratulations

Thanks, I inherited it from my dad. Sometimes the ability to fix things can be a curse. I enjoy it.

 

[Megawatt]

Thanks, I inherited it from my dad. Sometimes the ability to fix things can be a curse. I enjoy it.

A good challenge is always a good learning experience