Hager MCCBs Advice needed

[thestig246]

Hi im currently been carrying out at periodic on a caravan park. the board is a hager with these massive mccbs. There are 16mm cables which feed onto caravan outlets and the mccbs are all rated at 125A's... I dont see why this has been done and dont think its acceptable, surely the biggest protective devices for a 16mm is 63a tops??

I wondered if anyone else has had dealings with these boards and can you still get the breakers for these boards so i can down rate it abit!

il try and get a picture up once i famble it out!

many thanks!

 

[Bobster]

Agreeing totally with the install not being up to par.

I've never seen the need to interlock the cover of a DB, they all need a tool to access the internals. If an idiot wants to open it up not knowing what their doing, darwins theory is in action. The ISO bar system Schneider have is fantastic and the odd time I spec a job needing DB's this is one of the reasons I almost exclusively use them.

 

[Engineer54]

Agreeing totally with the install not being up to par.

I've never seen the need to interlock the cover of a DB, they all need a tool to access the internals. If an idiot wants to open it up not knowing what their doing, darwins theory is in action. The ISO bar system Schneider have is fantastic and the odd time I spec a job needing DB's this is one of the reasons I almost exclusively use them.

Rob, as you are well aware of, you can literally have whatever you want from Schneider, you can have an interlocking or non interlocking isolator, an MCCB/MCB with or without OCP, with or without capture device etc etc. Whatever you want can be accommodated. lol!! Haven't used anything other than MG/Schneider on any of my projects, that goes for both MV and LV side of things....

 

[happydundee]

That board is a disgrace, I would rip the lot out and start again.

 

[atm84]

Not disagreeing with you on this system seeming to be a bit of a balls up, but most DB's can have the lid taken off without isolating. I know schneiders MCB/MCCB boards can be.

All our project DB/Panels are Schneider, (most of them with completely insulated bus bar and protected connection points), all have a cover capture 4 pole isolator switch, that only releases in the Off position. The panel in question here looks more of an add hock affair with exposed live conductive parts everywhere. Couple to that, this being a TT panel that seems accessable to caravan owners makes this even more of an issue that needs to be addressed....

The fact that the board can be opened without the need to isolate is not against any regulations. It's about the Form Type that the board is. Most boards that are installed are Tyoe 3 or 4. This could be a Type 1 or 2 nothing wrong with that though. Just not ideal.

 

[Engineer54]

The fact that the board can be opened without the need to isolate is not against any regulations. It's about the Form Type that the board is. Most boards that are installed are Tyoe 3 or 4. This could be a Type 1 or 2 nothing wrong with that though. Just not ideal.

Any 3 phase MCCB/MCB DB/Panel that has accessible live copper work should be cover/door interlocked with it's main switch. Now if that's not against the regulations, then it bloody well should be. Being seemingly also accessible by the residents of this caravan camp site, only adds to the risks....

Personally what has been described to us by the OP regarding the cabling set up, the overall deterioration of those cable, the OCPD set-up and finally this ad-hoc panel, the whole installation needs redesigning and replacing, but the chances of that happening is pretty remote, unless/until of course someone gets hurt and the blame game goes into full swing!!!

 

[atm84]

The fact that the board can be opened without the need to isolate is not against any regulations. It's about the Form Type that the board is. Most boards that are installed are Tyoe 3 or 4. This could be a Type 1 or 2 nothing wrong with that though. Just not ideal.

Any 3 phase MCCB/MCB DB/Panel that has accessible live copper work should be cover/door interlocked with it's main switch. Now if that's not against the regulations, then it bloody well should be. Being seemingly also accessible by the residents of this caravan camp site, only adds to the risks....

Personally what has been described to us by the OP regarding the cabling set up, the overall deterioration of those cable, the OCPD set-up and finally this ad-hoc panel, the whole installation needs redesigning and replacing, but the chances of that happening is pretty remote, unless/until of course someone gets hurt and the blame game goes into full swing!!!

I agree it should be against the regs but I have just learnt last week that it isn't. Form 1 boards are available and nothing in BS 7671 stipulates the use against them.

 

[Bobster]

Any 3 phase MCCB/MCB DB/Panel that has accessible live copper work should be cover/door interlocked with it's main switch. Now if that's not against the regulations, then it bloody well should be.

Going to to disagree again, so long as it needs a tool to enter.

you remember the open frame bill 3ph fuse boards, wonder how many are still about in service!

 

[Engineer54]

Going to to disagree again, so long as it needs a tool to enter.

you remember the open frame bill 3ph fuse boards, wonder how many are still about in service!

Think things have changed just a little since the days of those old BILL fuse boards, along with the culture of blame and consequence/compensation in the rush to the law courts. In this instance we don't know if a tool is required, or even if there is an internal cover provided which could make all the difference?

A bit different if were talking about only Skilled persons having access, such as maintenance personnel in an industrial setting etc...