Help me work out how to wire these wall lights please.

[PhilPatrick]

Hi, Phil, UK, DIY.

I am trying to move two wall lights either side of a fireplace and add a 240v feed for an LED strip lighting driver. We're building a media wall, the LED driver will power LEDs in the niches. The wall light on the left of the fireplace needs to go further left, the one on the right needs to go further right.
I've taken the old light fittings off the wall and chased out the wall to extend the wiring left and right.
The light on the left has live, neutral and earth (red, black, copper) and then a single black on its own. The wiring on the right is the same.

When I test the wiring on the left with a multimeter I get 240v between the single black wire and the neutral (black). I get about 160v between the single black wire and the live (red). On the right hand side I get nothing between the single black wire and the live (red). I get 240v between the single black wire and the neutral (black).

All wires run up the wall and across the ceiling. I'm having trouble visualising how it's wired. I'm presuming the left hand light is the first one in the circuit and the right hand one is wired off that. No clue though and don't fancy hours of trying to figure it out and more hours worrying if I've made it safe.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[littlespark]

This doesnt sound right.... Why should there be a single black?

It sounds like both lights were initially wired in red/black twin and earth cable... possibly from a joint box under the floor above. Perhaps a fault developed, and the repair was to run in another live cable (the single black?)

How were the light fittings connected to the cables before?

Can you upload photos please to help visualise the situation.


Also... if you are extending cables, the joint needs to be in a suitable enclosure and not just buried in the wall

 

[PhilPatrick]

This doesnt sound right.... Why should there be a single black?

It sounds like both lights were initially wired in red/black twin and earth cable... possibly from a joint box under the floor above. Perhaps a fault developed, and the repair was to run in another live cable (the single black?)

How were the light fittings connected to the cables before?

Can you upload photos please to help visualise the situation.


Also... if you are extending cables, the joint needs to be in a suitable enclosure and not just buried in the wall

I'm assuming the single black is some kind of live between the two light fittings? I'm not sure it would be a repair because it's buried in the plaster at the same depth as all the others. It looks like it was all installed at the same time.

How were the lights connected before? Good question. Twisted together and wrapped in tape, I couldn't make head nor tail of it. They always flickered and the whole thing was just a dog's dinner.

I can upload pictures, but not tonight. I'll need to take them during daylight as all the power to that room is turned off. Thanks.

 

[littlespark]

That is whats strange... why that single black is there.

each light would need a live, neutral and earth.... but thats an extra cable that doesnt need to be there.

Are the lights switched from the door, or do they have their own pull cord switch on them? Maybe an extra core was put in to give the lights a switched live, and a permanant live.... just in case whoever wired it initially changed the style of lights.

 

[PhilPatrick]

That is whats strange... why that single black is there.

each light would need a live, neutral and earth.... but thats an extra cable that doesnt need to be there.

Are the lights switched from the door, or do they have their own pull cord switch on them? Maybe an extra core was put in to give the lights a switched live, and a permanant live.... just in case whoever wired it initially changed the style of lights.

Switched from the door. On a dimmer switch. I perhaps should have mentioned there's a single ceiling pendant light off the same dimmer switch. They all come on at the same time. And the ceiling light is still working on its own without the other two being connected. In fact it's better, it doesn't flicker anymore. Thanks.

 

[littlespark]

Are the exposed wires safe now?

Maybe the wires to the wall lights come from the ceiling pendant? You could unscrew the rose and see whats connected there.

It might be an idea to do away with the wall lights altogether if youre installing a media wall.

 

[PhilPatrick]

Are the exposed wires safe now?

Maybe the wires to the wall lights come from the ceiling pendant? You could unscrew the rose and see whats connected there.

It might be an idea to do away with the wall lights altogether if youre installing a media wall.

Yes they're all safe. I've separated all the wires and they're all terminated in their own little plastic connector thingies while I try to work out what's going on.

I'm not opposed to binning off the wall lights altogether but still need a safe 240v feed for my LEDs in the media wall. Thanks again.

 

[brianmoooore]

I've taken the old light fittings off the wall and chased out the wall to extend the wiring left and right.
.

Are you aware of what "safe zones" are and the regulations concerning them?

 

[PhilPatrick]

Are you aware of what "safe zones" are and the regulations concerning them?

Couldn't care less about regulations pal, it's my house. I asked for help with the wiring not a health and safety lecture.
But yes I know what safe zones are.

 

[littlespark]

I’m afraid you won’t get any help with replies like that.

Brian has asked a valid question…. And quite rightly, the initial vertical drops from the ceiling will no longer be a prescribed zone if you move the lights positions….. unless by sheer luck there’s a socket directly beneath them.


Your question really is, why might there be 4 cores at each light when there only needs to be 3?….. and that’s something we can’t really suggest for certain.


Your flickering may be from LED lamps being used with an older dimmer switch.

 

[DPG]

Couldn't care less about regulations pal, it's my house. I asked for help with the wiring not a health and safety lecture.
But yes I know what safe zones are.

Lovely attitude. And it's a shame because up until now you've had some good responses.

 

[westward10]

Couldn't care less about regulations pal, it's my house. I asked for help with the wiring not a health and safety lecture.
But yes I know what safe zones are.

You asked for help and people are asking valid questions but if you are not interested this thread can be closed.

 

[Alanc123]

I agree with the above comment regarding the lights flickering due to having them on a non led dimmer.
Also the best way to investigate the wiring problem is if you can get access above to find a junction box. It might be awkward but at least it can solve the problem and then be corrected