It's the tester pictured above - simple 'plug' with LEDs
It's the tester pictured above - simple 'plug' with LEDs
What does it show, when plugged into the socket without the Wi-Fi thing?
i.e. socket turned off?
Why it isn't a fixed appliance even though it is an immersion element, it is essentially being used as a portable appliance plugged into a socket. You could have installed a dedicated 13A socket for it and you would have the same result. My kettle is rated 2.75 - 3.0kw so does that need a dedicated circuit.
But your kettle is unlikely to be on for long periods of time.
The kettle is only used for very short periods, Matey's element is on for longer, If you intend sticking a 13 Amp socket on a dedicated circuit and you know what it's going to be used for, in this case a 3KW water heater then quite frankly you are wasting your time, do it right the first time.
Very true with regards to the kettle but the Regulations for 2kw is not for portable appliances and the cause of this problem was pushing the 13A fuse to its limit for prolonged periods of time.
I realise the IET don't have all the answers but in this case I think they have it right on the nail.
Makes no odds+ its only mobile 'cos it's sat in the back of his van
Sorry Mate understoodI was trying to make merry Pete
From an electrical point of view it would be best to have a specific 16A radial circuit for the heater on a higher rated (16A+) plug and socket arrangement.
The rating of the immersion means that it is pulling the maximum current that a BS1363 socket should take so any slight anomalies may cause melting such as you have seen. The same thing happens with standard immersion heaters on plug and socket or fused spur arrangements.
With the circuit installation you have you are unable to avoid requiring a 13A fuse at some point, presumably the wifi socket may be fused, the plug in the wifi socket will be fused and in the current set up the plug on the outside is also fused.
Each fuse (and each connection) is a potential point of failure.
The wifi socket must also be close to its rated limit as they are often limited to 10A or even 5 A.
The simplest solution would be to have a 16A socket installed outside instead of the double socket and still plugged in as you have it now inside, however this will only transfer the possibility of failure to the wifi socket and the plug which is used inside and will not address the heavy loading on the ring, although if it is only used at night the loading on the ring will probably be low.
The rating of the immersion means that it is pulling the maximum current that a BS1363 socket should take so any slight anomalies may cause melting such as you have seen. The same thing happens with standard immersion heaters on plug and socket or fused spur arrangements.
With the circuit installation you have you are unable to avoid requiring a 13A fuse at some point, presumably the wifi socket may be fused, the plug in the wifi socket will be fused and in the current set up the plug on the outside is also fused.
Each fuse (and each connection) is a potential point of failure.
The wifi socket must also be close to its rated limit as they are often limited to 10A or even 5 A.
The simplest solution would be to have a 16A socket installed outside instead of the double socket and still plugged in as you have it now inside, however this will only transfer the possibility of failure to the wifi socket and the plug which is used inside and will not address the heavy loading on the ring, although if it is only used at night the loading on the ring will probably be low.
I believe somewhere there is a requirement for immersions not to be on plug tops but I doubt this instance is applicable.
A bit long winded but Yes
GN1 advises a plug and socket set up for connecting immersion heaters is not recommended id imagine due to the 13amp plug and fuse being subject to their maximum loading for lengthy periods of time daily.
I've also come across 13amp fused Spurs feeding immersion heaters on economy 7 installations during eicr s , where the spur shows signs if thermal damage and in some cases the spur has cracked across the plate but the fuse is still intact, all be it melted into the plastic holder.
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With the socket turned off (I.e the wifi adaptor off) it shows no N. With it turned on it's all normal. I presumed it's how it works to keep the wifi signal active?
That's a good point. Usually I plug it in at home and turn it on for an hour before I leave. It general stays hot enough all day - so I don't need to plug it in.
But on occasion I do plug it in at customer's houses via my extension lead and have never had a problem. Although as the tank is already warm, I doubt it 'fires' for long before reaching the required temp.
The other guy who I work with has been doing this job for 13 years, and has used this set-up for all that time with no issues - except for the element blowing every three months or so (although that's probably more to do with the sodium hydroxide in the tank!)
So - would the best solution (given that there's is some debate about best practice) to run a dedicated feed from the CU out of the house and to a 16A rated socket with 16A plug?
As I need to plug it into the van would a 16A socket and plug (on the element) in the van also be required? I'm presuming so.
I imagine you would need a circuit from your CU to a 16 Amp socket, your heater would require a 16 Amp plug top to enable you to plug it into the 16Amp socket wired from your CU how you would manage at the customer premises is a different problem.
Yeah. Think that's always going to be an issue (customer's houses). I did consider fitting a split charge system (similar to the one on my camper) which powered a 12V heater for when I'm between jobs.
Although if everything's 13A and is only connected for a short time is it 'really' an issue? Isn't the worst that can happen it trips their CU?
Although if everything's 13A and is only connected for a short time is it 'really' an issue? Isn't the worst that can happen it trips their CU?
With a decent 13A plug it would probably be okay for short periods so you could make a 13A to 16A lead.
easy. a short ext.lead 1363 plug on 1 end and a 16A commando socket on the other.
It won't necessarily trip the entire CU just the circuit you have plugged into, which won't do much for customer relations, especially if they are on line etc.
The peak wattage could down a bit on the extension lead round the customers .
Spares wise are lower wattages , as common as what Dan uses ?
Agreed "abounded"
For what it's worth I'm 100% receptive to doing the 'right thing'. Just not entirely sure what the right thing is!
It's my business and it needs to work safely and efficiently every time. So will welcome workable solutions.
At present I feel like I could call out three electricians and all would give me a different answer!
It's my business and it needs to work safely and efficiently every time. So will welcome workable solutions.
At present I feel like I could call out three electricians and all would give me a different answer!
Don't worry , most industrial conectors are round for reliability .
The guy doing the job , will know his way safely , and his materials . (You are right identical solutons are rare)
13A plugs are done for their price , hence struggling with kettles and wall heaters get hardwired !
The guy doing the job , will know his way safely , and his materials . (You are right identical solutons are rare)
13A plugs are done for their price , hence struggling with kettles and wall heaters get hardwired !
OP I'm sure you comply with all the legislation regarding the transporting and use of chemicals in the course of your business.
I'm sure your training would have covered H&S, PPE and more importantly equipment. If you don't mind me saying, it doesn't appear you have your equipment quite right. The melting plug to one side, I'm not sure about the use of equipment fashioned by yourself, and the plugging in this equipment at your customers property.
I think you now have suitable advice from members on the way forward for your install to provide a supply for your equipment; do you think you should go elsewhere to seek guidance about how this equipment is installed & used in your vehicle?
I'm sure your training would have covered H&S, PPE and more importantly equipment. If you don't mind me saying, it doesn't appear you have your equipment quite right. The melting plug to one side, I'm not sure about the use of equipment fashioned by yourself, and the plugging in this equipment at your customers property.
I think you now have suitable advice from members on the way forward for your install to provide a supply for your equipment; do you think you should go elsewhere to seek guidance about how this equipment is installed & used in your vehicle?
I'm correctly insured and the chemical is transported and used correctly. The only issue here is the safe connection of the heating element to 240v.
The way I conduct my business isn't really the issue here.
The best solution appears to be 16A all round.
I will consult an electrician, and I thank you for your time and answers on here.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Tel.
OP you say you sometimes plug in at customers properties, meaning you could potentially cause the same damage to their sockets too. A new plugtop for your extension, outside socket on your house and 2kW immersion would be my solution.
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