Help..new board ..old installation

[palmerelectrcal]

Ok..so a new board(c/unit) doesnt come under "minor works" for certification purposes,
But under "new installation" although I've tested all existing ccts/earth bonding etc..and happy to include most of the existing on my cert. I have to exclude some metal light fittings (existing)
that have no earth? do i just list these under "departure from bs7671" section.And reccomend the
customer addresses this asap?.

 

[telectrix]

make up a label for the CU as well, saying something like " no cpc on lighting circuit/s. class II fittings only must be used."

 

[palmerelectrcal]

I will, thanks. I just think we should only be responsible for the work we
do(and apart from carrying out the basic safety check/tests which makes sense)
And the cert sholud allow us to "part certify" a job.. with recommndations listed on the cert.!!

 

[Sintra]

These should have been picked up before the cu change and rectified IMO. I personally wouldn't be re-energising them.

 

[NickD]

Totally agree with Sintra. You cannot sign off the CU change and leave unearthed Class I fittings and just call it a deviation. ESC best practice guide is very clear on this.

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG1v2_web.pdf

 

[NickD]

make up a label for the CU as well, saying something like " no cpc on lighting circuit/s. class II fittings only must be used."

And you'd leave the Class I lighting fittings in place and energised...?

 

[palmerelectrcal]

Easier said than done the old wylex fuse box casing was broken exposing live
parts.ok it was behind a panel which was fixed with a single screw..but totally unsafe..so had to be done.But without ripping up the floor above or leaving the customer with no lighting whats the choice. I know in an ideal world what your'e saying is right but unfortunately this isnt an "ideal" situation,

 

[markc123]

Yes they should have been rectified (if it was possible) at the same time as the CU change, however, they haven't been in this case so its as tele said...

Make a label and let the client know he can only use class 2 fittings...if there are any class 1 fittings in the installation, then you change them for class 2 or he doesn't get the cert as simple as that.

 

[palmerelectrcal]

just pulling the plug isnt the answer!

 

[NickD]

Easier said than done the old wylex fuse box casing was broken exposing live
parts.ok it was behind a panel which was fixed with a single screw..but totally unsafe..so had to be done.But without ripping up the floor above or leaving the customer with no lighting whats the choice. I know in an ideal world what your'e saying is right but unfortunately this isnt an "ideal" situation,

The ESC guide covers the circumstances of a distress change. Have a look. Distress change or no, you are leaving yourself very exposed leaving it as it is. I would be deeply, deeply reluctant to re-energise that circuit as it stands. Is replacing the Class I fittings with Class II an option?

 

[NickD]

Have you discussed with the client, explained the issue and the risk, gauged their intentions / what they're willing to pay for? Wave the ESC best practice guide in front of them to show you're not just trying to take the proverbial, maybe.

 

[markc123]

It's either locking his lighting circuit off or changing whatever class 1 fittings are in the installation too class2.

Im sure the client would rather pay a few extra quid than go without lights. Let him know the situation and that you can't energise because there are class 1 fittings in circuit without cpc's...unless the client changes.

 

[Octopus]

The ESC guide is misleading at the very least.

If you have class I fittings on a circuit you have to stick a label confirming that the circuit has no CPC, and inform the client that its your recommendation that the class I fittings are replaced with class II.

Your duty is to make the installation safer, which with nice new shiny MCB's and RCD's will be.

Your comments section on your EIC is for you to CYA.

Tin hat on.

 

[palmerelectrcal]

Thats why I posted on here. Im going to advise cust that they need sorting. Either change to class 2 or maybe i can draw a new 1.5 through rplacing the
old single core l &n...but thanks. and ill update when ive sortd it.

 

[NickD]

To my surprise, the ESC guide (if I have interpreted it right) says the following if you have class I fittings with no CPCs and the client will not cough up for providing CPCs:

If fittings are not simultaneously accessible with earthed metalwork or extraneous conductive parts, not in an area with a conductive floor, and not in a special location or outdoors, then IR test between the live conductors and the metal parts (action required if <1Mohm result) and fit a warning label at CU.

I think I might be horrified?