Help with multi wired pendant to 3 wired next light.....

[Martino]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section as i could not find the 'post new thread button' in the DIY section....

I have quite basic knowledge of electrics...i have changed socket fronts and created new spare + ring main sockets in my home with the help of my dads experience and knowledge...

The question i have is....i have a pendant with lots of wires...(please find attached photo)

on the left we have what i think is 3 neutrals...middle is 3 permanant lives....right 2 switch lives....on the light we want to fit up it only has 1 live 1 neutral 1 earth...

can i basically choc block & tape the 3 permanant lives together and push them into the ceiling?...the 3 neutrals do the same but with 1 wire coming off them and then the same for the 2 switch lives....if this is totally wrong please forgive me as like i say i am a total newbie really...

 

[Deleted member 9648]

No,you cannot stuff connectors up into the ceiling. If the fitting you are installing will not take all of the wiring the correct way would be to access above and fit a proper connection box with enclosed connections,maintenance free if not accessible in the future.You dont mention an earth in the existing wiring...this is essential for a class 1 fitting. Few light fittings are designed to take the standard 3 plate wiring in most houses and can be a headache even for an electrician to connect properly,some have enough room for connections in the baseplate of the fitting,but many dont.A pic of the new light connections would be a help....if you are in any doubt get an electrician in to put up the light.

Edit.....looks like there is an earth from the pic

 

[kingeri]

I had one just yesterday, just a line and neutral connector, no earth terminal even to 'park' my earth, no room for any slack on the wires.....awful.. The only way I could do it was to install a MF JB above it, luckily there was a big hole in the ceiling anyway, otherwise would I really have had to lift the bathroom flooring above just to fit a bloody light fitting below? I wish the designers of these fittings would give even 10% of their time to thinking about the poor sod who has to install the things. The poor design of some of them encourage people to lash it together and push connector blocks into ceiling voids etc.

 

[Martino]

Forgot to mention the eath...there is a eath what is the easiest wire to connect in this situation....i like in a apartment to going upstairs is not possible...so if i did what i said earlier but put the 3 permant lives in a JB and connected the switch lives and neutrals to the light as well as the earth.. this would work?

 

[Andy78]

As said, don't push anything into the ceiling. All joints must be accessible. I know it's difficult with the penny pinching design of most modern light fittings, but I despair every time I have to fish a nest of flex, choc blocks, and tape out a ceiling just to fit a light.

 

[Martino]

I appreciate your advice...but if we can go back to my questions please lol....

What would be the best way to fit a new light to the current wiring i have...3 neutrals, 3 permanant live 2 switch live 1 earth......

 

[kingeri]

Any connections must be made within the fitting, it is totally unacceptable to stuff them into the void. It is also potentially dangerous. Connector blocks can be used if there is space for them inside the fitting. If not, then as said a junction box needs to be installed above. This would likely need to be maintenance free, unless it is accessible from above (i.e. in the loft).
This would be well and truly a task for an electrician by the way!

 

[Martino]

Kingeri thanks for the advice....as far as i am aware it is not against the law to change light fittings in your own home if you are deemed a competent person...all i am asking for is some small advice but this may not be the correct forum for this i see.

 

[kingeri]

I didn't say it was against the law! The electrician reference was relating to the installation of the junction box if necessary, not changing the fitting.

(Oh, and how competent a person are you if you have to come on here and ask how to do it!?!?!?)

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I appreciate your advice...but if we can go back to my questions please lol....

What would be the best way to fit a new light to the current wiring i have...3 neutrals, 3 permanant live 2 switch live 1 earth......

As already stated...either make the connections within the fitting itself using connectors....or if this is not possible an enclosed joint must be made in the void above. There is no other way.
A pic of the fitting would help a lot.

 

[amlu]

hard to say whats more dangerous... some wires in the floor space or too many wires in a light fitting not designed to accomodate them.

and yeah, most of;- modern domestic fancy lights is not compatible with uk traditional ceiling rose wiring

if you have to then make a fair big hole, put the joint in there
(preferably enclose it in some form of enclosure with cable retention facility) so it can accesed and checked after removing the light.


get some wago connectors if you can, much more reliable than a taped choc bloc.

 

[Badged01]

....as far as i am aware it is not against the law to change light fittings in your own home if you are deemed a competent person...

Always interesting how 'competent' is defined for "DIY" work. You are certainly allowed for example to change socket fronts if broken or even fit a new light as you intend. Doing it is straight forward, particularly if you follow manuf instructions but I always wonder for "DIY" how you test to confirm correct wiring or presence of earthing once completed?

As an example, once had a very ornate metal light fitting (akin to an expensive chandelier!) that had been correctly "DIY" installed & wired by the occupier. On testing the actual metal work of the chandelier it was not "earthed", even though the CPC had been connected. To cut a long story short there was a fault with the chandelier earth but unless you were "competent" in testing post installation, this fault would never be found by the "DIYer". Have also come across "DIY" installed sockets where the N and E have been swapped!

So yes, if you feel you are “competent” to install and test your work there is no reason why you shouldn’t do it. (Provided its not a job required under the regs or part ‘p’ to be done otherwise)

 

[GMES]

Guys I think martino is actually asking how to connect the fitting as in which wire goes to which wire, now if this is the case it is up to us to either help him or not, personally even though this is the DIY section I feel uncomfortable giving this advise on a forum so would urge the op to get an electrician to do the job which I would guess at probably £40.00 , which shouldn't break the bank.

 

[Andy78]

I'm close to him if he does want to get someone in.
I get the feeling he will do it himself though. He gave a good description of the conductors in his first post so I don't think his question is about the termination designations, but about the termination methods and locations.

I think he felt the replies were unhelpful, but I'm sure he doesn't realise we can't give him advice that is against the regs on a public forum.

 

[kingeri]

He asked the same question again even though as far as I could see it was answered pretty early on.