help

D

demkap

hi there just wondering any calculations for working out cable size. so example i have a 9.6kw shower what breaker and cable size do i have to use?
also with wired in smoke detectors can they be wired say off a socket circuit or a fused spur in use or does it have to have its own circuit?

thanks
 
hi there just wondering any calculations for working out cable size. so example i have a 9.6kw shower what breaker and cable size do i have to use?
also with wired in smoke detectors can they be wired say off a socket circuit or a fused spur in use or does it have to have its own circuit?

also how much for a pir test on average?
and a consumer unit change?
thanks
 
yea i am competent i just some advice because i havent done this type of work before strangely?
 
just to add a positive note. first select your cable according to the load, work out the current first. allow for derating due to whatever the installation method, then calculate the volt drop for that particular current load and length of run ( all in OSG.). if VD is within limits, then you're good to go. hint, if you don't get somewhere between 6mm and 10mm, you've done it wrong.

then , of course there's RCD protection , earthing and bonding issues to be addressed. not to mention notifying the gestapo.
 
Last edited:
Plus total load calcs. Have a customer just bought a house for mum opposite them. Wanted an 8.5kW shower installed, they have a looped 7.5kW supply!
 
First calculation you will need to do will be how much will a course coast to train as an electrical Journeyman
You will need to speak to your local college regarding places for next year.
Ask about C&G 2357 and NVQ.
Then after a couple of years you can then move onto C&G 2382-12
 
demkap said:
hi there just wondering any calculations for working out cable size. so example i have a 9.6kw shower what breaker and cable size do i have to use?
also with wired in smoke detectors can they be wired say off a socket circuit or a fused spur in use or does it have to have its own circuit?

also how much for a pir test on average?
and a consumer unit change?
thanks
Click to expand...

Have you not already posted this in the general forum?
Seriously mate, if you are a student or learner, you would have an idea in which books to have a gander in...
The post is a tad bit ambiguous too, from a cable size to PIR and then to top it off a CU change....
If you are having issues at least try and deal with one at a time, maybe, just maybe the response might be a bit more encouraging..
Demkap, over to you....
 
And most importantly, follow manufacturers instructions. They often tell you what size you should use. It is a reg requirement to follow this.

As others have said tho, if you have never installed a shower or worked out cable/mcb sizing, or even know about how to wire up smoke detectors, then I would question the use of the word "competent" regarding this type of work.
 
demkap said:
hi there just wondering any calculations for working out cable size. so example i have a 9.6kw shower what breaker and cable size do i have to use?
also with wired in smoke detectors can they be wired say off a socket circuit or a fused spur in use or does it have to have its own circuit?

also how much for a pir test on average?
and a consumer unit change?
thanks
Click to expand...

I dont understand why you are interested in the price of a pir

Understanding cable sizes and mcbs ratings etc, are not the type of questions that the inspector would require to ask
Why do you want opinion on this?
 
Des 56 said:
I dont understand why you are interested in the price of a pir

Understanding cable sizes and mcbs ratings etc, are not the type of questions that the inspector would require to ask
Why do you want opinion on this?
Click to expand...

I suspect this is someone looking to do electrical work and is looking for advice on how to do the jobs plus costing. Hope I am wrong here...
 
harsh mate i only wanted advice! i am competent in electrics i just havent done certain things yet like that.. i know how to work out fuse rating for say the heater but i jsut wanted to calculation for the cable size id personally go for a 10mm cable for that 9.6kw shower. also with the smoke detector i just wondered if your aloud to run if off another supply say a fused spur? i have it on its own circuit anyway im just asking the question, thats what this site is for is it not!?
 
Not harsh at all. You have asked several questions which I think most electricians here would agree are fairly straightforward for a competent person. Everything you have asked is either in the BGB or the OSG, plus you asked the same thing in 3 or more separate threads. We would normally ask for advice on subjects which aren't obvious from standard reading material.
I will say no more, and I wish you all the best.
 
Mate, I'm all for helping people out on these forums but its painfully obvious that you haven't recieved any sort of formal training for those type of jobs. I hope you are aware that installing new circuits and changing consumer units are subject to Part P of the building regs and should be carried out by a compentant person registered and checked by an approval body such as ELECSA, NICEIC or NAPPIT. If you carry out those jobs and don't issue the necassary certificates to prove you've done it correctly then you are breaking the law not to mention putting peoples life at risk. I'm sorry to sound shouty but I'm fed up of being undercut by electricians that do not have the overheads that I do because they aren't registered etc.
I'd suggest you get yourself trained and wish you all the luck in the world.
 
mate i am trained! and i am nappit thank you.. i just havent i know how to do it im just asking for advice.. with regards to pir i asked how much because i wanted to see what others are charging, simply question? i know with the shower its gonan pull over 40amps and would need 10mm cable, i just wanted the full calculation for cable size as i cant remember it. i really think i have been missunderstood on here.. and i know how you feel! i have the same problems as you we are all in the same boat so chill
 
If you are NAPPIT then fair enough and I apologise. All the info you need is in the regs and osg as they were the only books you used at college. What sort of work are you experienced in if you're not domestic? Re. PIR. I try to apply my day rates to how long I think it will take me. Average time per circuit x no. of circuits. Hours x normal day rate. plus an hour for copying all the dirty screwed up pieces of paper onto new EICR forms.
 
cheers mate sorry if i seemed like i didnt know what i was on about i was just asking for advice thats all. yea thats all like with circuits i usually charge £25 a circuit depending or do the price in terms of property size. i think on average for a pir its about £150 plus vat i have heard? i do domestic i just havent actually done a shower circuit yet ha i have done everything else i mainly do consumer unit changes, upgrading bonding, pat testing, like for like fittings etc. im pretty new in the game so wanted a bit of help.. with insulation resistance test its difficult to always do isnt it due to appliances being plugged in?
 
demkap said:
with insulation resistance test its difficult to always do isnt it due to appliances being plugged in?
Click to expand...

If you look down you will see two sizeable parts of your body, they are called legs. Try using them and going around unplugging appliances.
Makes life a lot easier and you can give correct test results. From what I’ve read in this thread and others you don’t seem qualified at all.
 
im with tony,your not a spark in anyway shape or form,you will get better answers if you just said your new to the game and want help,how you ever got to be part of a scheme is beyond me..
 
demkap said:
yea thats all like with circuits i usually charge £25 a circuit depending or do the price in terms of property size. i think on average for a pir its about £150 plus vat i have heardQUOTE]

You've not convinced me either. Not installed a shower circuits but yet you're doing EICR's??
Click to expand...
 
He is a Napit member and has access to the Napit forum
Therefore he can confirm his membership by answering this question

What "make" of vehicle transporter is being discussed in the general forum section
 
I think you are all being a bit rude to this fellow tradesman by just pointing him to the big green book.

demkap, can I suggest instead that you use the other one, the big yellow book. Look under 'e' for electricians and call one before you do any serious damage.

If you are indeed an electrician then I apologise and take back the above comment. I assume you have done work in your own house so turn a few more pages and try under 'f' for fire insurance.
 
mate i am trained! and i am nappit thank you
Click to expand...

You may have dropped yourself into the soft brown stuff with some of your questions.

What's your call sign/avatar ?....... and don't let the nemesis of the 5DW find out who you are
 
durhamspark said:
I think you are all being a bit rude to this fellow tradesman by just pointing him to the big green book.

demkap, can I suggest instead that you use the other one, the big yellow book. Look under 'e' for electricians and call one before you do any serious damage.

If you are indeed an electrician then I apologise and take back the above comment. I assume you have done work in your own house so turn a few more pages and try under 'f' for fire insurance.
Click to expand...

Shot down in flames eh?
 
Dillb said:
Why not ring NAPIT tech support and ask them?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting point.

All registered Electricians in England and Wales are listed on the competent persons scheme website.

Could Dan use this as some form of "access right" to people claiming to be registered Electricians to check them out? a sort of half way house to the Electricians Arms??
 
demkap said:
hi there just wondering any calculations for working out cable size. so example i have a 9.6kw shower what breaker and cable size do i have to use?
also with wired in smoke detectors can they be wired say off a socket circuit or a fused spur in use or does it have to have its own circuit?

thanks
Click to expand...


Did u not post this thread in the middle of a lighting circuit thread :/
 

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