Here we go guys, more money being sucked from us poor old sparkys.

[baldsparkies]

Hello Fellas,
I'm back, after a long time away.
With the new inspection condition reports being the flavour/fashion for 2012, Can any of you guys tell me if there is an overlap timespan where the PIR and installation certs will still be valid for use.
If not, then I need to get my finger and wallet out and start purchasing certificate software updates and also, sling my NICEIC written cert/pads in the file DO NOT USE.
Common sense would dictate that we can continue to use the old forms until they run out. But when has common sense taken priority over money grabbing schemes for the poor old sparks. lol.
Appreciate your replies lads.

 

[NMc]

The overlap has happened. Amendment 1 is from 1st January 2012.

Time to splash the cash

 

[Short Circuit]

yep, agree with Nmc, the overlap has been and almost gone - get your pen out and use all those certs you have - they will be void from 1/1/12 - more cash down the swanny!

 

[baldsparkies]

Thanks lads. Will do.
Trouble with me is I'm getting to darn old.
59 next birthday and started in the game at age 17.
I have seen sooooo many changes over those years.
Gone from course to course, watching blokes sitting behind desks for a day of BS.
Half of them falling asleep. Half of them flicking bogeys at eachother. You know what I mean.
Keeps the colleges scheme providers and printers busy taking our hard earned cash from us. Oh well, here we go again. Until next time that is. lol.

 

[NMc]

To my understanding its only the PIR that has change to an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) the others remain as is

 

[netblindpaul]

There are no real changes to MEIWC.
However, there are minor changes to EIC.

 

[Amp David]

Thanks lads. Will do.
Trouble with me is I'm getting to darn old.
59 next birthday and started in the game at age 17.
I have seen sooooo many changes over those years.
Gone from course to course, watching blokes sitting behind desks for a day of BS.
Half of them falling asleep. Half of them flicking bogeys at eachother. You know what I mean.
Keeps the colleges scheme providers and printers busy taking our hard earned cash from us. Oh well, here we go again. Until next time that is. lol.

Cheer up old chap, if its getting you down this much it might be time to get into the teaching game!:73:

 

[NMc]

Is that a dig at teaching

 

[Amp David]

Not at all boss!

 

[Rampage]

I have the Megger (PowerSuite) Software, I spoke to them today and they will only update it to the new forms if you buy the maintenance contract.
Its got to be one of the poorest bits of software I've ever used anyway, so I'm not bothered!

 

[baldsparkies]

I don't mean to rant. But after all these years you begin to see all these little changes in the way we do things for what they really are.
Its all about generating revenue for the colleges and scheme providers.
They give no thought to the industry in general, which like everyone else are struggling to make ends meet.
For example they could produce an ammendment booklet covering the changes that they have decided to make to the 17th.
It would be a few pages thick and cost a fraction of the cost of buying a complete new regs book.
And you know when your next assesment is due. The assesor is going to be there tongue hanging out, asking the question wheres your green book mugs. We will froun on you if you havent spent your hard earned cash on that, and all the new certs and software you will now need. Oh yes courses, have you been on those all important courses. They mean your a good sparks, yea right. They mean we managed to con more money out of you.
One day they might become honest people, and go down the road of if it ain't broke. Dont fix it.
I just feel for the youngsters in this game. Its hard work being made harder by those who are supposed to be supporting us in the industry.
Sorry lads. Grumpy old man rant over.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There are minor changes to both the EIC and MWEIC IET model forms.
Some of the Regulations refered to have had their numbers changed.
On the EICs, in the sections for departures, 120.4 has changed to 133.5, and with MWEICs in the section for comments on existing installations, 131.8 has changed to 123.16.
I'm not certain what details your scheme provider has on their certificates, but it should be a very simple matter of just crossing out the old Reg. Nos. and writing in the new.
With the schedule of inspections, the changes are agin quite minor.
It now has added to the title (for a new installation), and the notes at the bottom relating to indicating an unsatisfactory result, and limitations have been removed.
As such there should be no need to stop using the old schedule.
The schedule of test results has changed, insofar as the IET models now resemble the NICEIC versions.
They now have boxes for recording the BS EN no. and breaking (or short circuit) capacity of overcurrent protective devices, reference method of installation for conductors/cables, individual results for r1, rn and r2 as well as R1+R2 on RFCs, either R1+R2 or R2 for radials and with RCDs, both 1x and 5x test results are required.
As far as I can see, the only information that is now required on the IET version that is not required on the NICEIC version, is confirmation of correct polarity of supply to the board, confirmation of phase sequence and details of any vulnerable (to testing) circuits.
As confirmation of polarity and phase sequence is required to be recorded on the front page of NICEIC Certificates, is it necessary for the same information to be recorded on the test schedule?

 

[GT1]

yes the power suite software support contract..!! PAH... whatta joke

 

[baldsparkies]

Whilst I am in the rant mood, I would like to add a comment regarding the niceic's frequently asked questions section.
If I change a shower. Like for like do I need to fit RCD protection.
The answer. No you don't. Well I don't think you do ??
Hang on wheres the box the shower was in. Lets look at the instructions a minute. Right!! let me put my glasses on. Oh yes here we are. Ah instructions with this shower says fit an RCD, so ignore my last answer.
YES you need to fit an RCD (Instructions say so)
Right same job, different day, different make shower. What now. ???
Oh right these instructions dont mention RCD protection. OK lads No need for RCD protection.
So with no names mentioned. We have a well known electrician. Who comes under the NIC banner as an experianced electrical legend.
Who in answer to this popular question is saying.
And I will translate for you, DON'T KNOW !! READ THE INSTRUCTIONS.
Just about says it all. All those years experience, and can't or won't make his own decision.
To be fair the guy is better than that. And I have a lot of respect for what he does.
But I find a sparky with that level of experiance should be able to provide a more definitive answer. And not do a duck and dive politician style act.
Have the courage of your convictions. Use your experience to form a decision, and act on it old boy.
If a pensioner with a weak heart recieved a fatal shock because more than 30ma was present, I would not sleep well just by saying the instruction didn't mention an RCD.
I want to be clear though. I am talking about using the RCD has a back up scenario. With a good solid earth return path being the primary earth fault protection.
My opinion, at age 58. RCD protection may not and should not be the primary means of earth fault ADS.
But if I was fitting a new shower like for like regardless of if a new circuit was being installed.
RCD protection would be provided, end of.
A naked wet body with over 9kw of electrical power at 230 volts. Only inches away from the user. Darn right I would.
Primary is a good low resistence earth return path, every time. But anything that can improve electrical safety in the event of a fault, and in those circumstances, is a must.
So there it is. I have made my own decision, based on what I feel is in the best interest of the user. And not what I read on a ruddy instructions leaflet.
Rant Over.

 

[Amp David]

As per the third line of you last poat ^^^ thats because most of the NICEIC DIs are useless. You know this if you have bothered to register and pay!