Hi All. Need some advice

[davidlynch20]

Hi All, my name is David and I clean and repair electrical ovens. I previously was a digital press operator and did lots of training to repair and maintain the digital presses.
I was cleaning a customers oven yesterday. I couldnt find the isolator switch to turn off so foolishly proceeded cautiously. While I was carefully cleaning around the bulb area a shard of wire wool tripped the kitchen ring main fuse switch. The oven was undamaged, but I have just been contacted by the customer to say that the short has broke her boiler which was also on the kitchen ring. I will be contacting my public liability insurance tomorrow, but can anyone clarify if this was my fault.

 

[PEG]

Hi,i cannot see how the wire-wool did this,unless there was no bulb in there? ...Anywho...there seems a rash of these type of claims,me pal who is in this type of job (white goods dogger) gets one a month...

I would be interested to see how the incidents were linked,or rather,have it explained... maybe it went off,if spurred off the same ring,or RCD covers several circuits...

To be honest,all i am thinking about,is what's the worst oven you have ever cleaned? ....Oh,and has a customer ever got mighty fresh with yer?

 

[solarsavings]

If the boiler is a glowworm or vaillant with the symsi board then there is chance that the boiler has gone down as turning them off at fcu can take the board out

 

[davidlynch20]

There didnt appear to be an RCD on the consumer unit. I had the bulb cover removed to clean the glass and there was a working bulb in situ, SES fit. Must have been very unlucky to touch live, but need to know if this would have knacked the boiler mother board. Havent admitted liability, just said I would contact my insurers tomorrow.

 

[buzzlightyear]

if their was no isolator to switch off the oven ,why did you knock off the mcb for safe sake .

 

[davidlynch20]

The customer had popped out and I didnt know where the consumer unit was. She showed me 10mins later when she returned

 

[Midwest]

Been there. Your very presence has caused issues in this household, with or without substance. You could just let your insurance company manage the situation; they'll send out a loss adjuster, who may or may not argue the issue. End of the day, next year for the next 'x' years, your PL will increase to pay off this liability.

Note to oneself; make sure your hourly rate reflects this liability, prior to stepping foot in anymore properties .

 

[buzzlightyear]

I can not see how a short on the oven has taken the c/board out considering it would by pass the boiler .or was the isolator 13amp fuse out some where for the boiler .

 

[solarsavings]

My young friend Kev with a possible fix if it's a glowworm or vailant as I posted above.

 

[KEV 1 N]

Quite possible the power going off (to the boiler) then being turned back on has caused the boilers circuit board to blow a component....
I speak from experience here, as I did it to my own a few years back....accidentally switched it off, realised in a second, put it back on....blew 3a fuse in spur, kept blowing them....burnt component!
£350 replacement from plumb centre! I managed to get a reconditioned one for £150 of eBay and changed it myself.

If you know a good gas engineer might be worth getting him/her to fix it for your customer ( shows goodwill and hopefully keep them happy) as opposed to going through insurance....as someone else said you’ll pay the extra in premiums for years to come.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

If the boiler is a glowworm or vaillant with the symsi board then there is chance that the boiler has gone down as turning them off at fcu can take the board out

Well that is not the OPs fault, it is a design fault and should be covered by a guarantee, or statuary rights.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

My young friend Kev with a possible fix if it's a glowworm or vailant as I posted above.

If you are taking the board out a much better fix would be to run over all the joints with a soldering iron. Don't use unleaded solder either. It is carp.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Well that is not the OPs fault, it is a design fault and should be covered by a guarantee, or statuary rights.

no on working on it has taken full responsible ,but I would argue that because he could not isolate it ,then it is down to the customer for not having a isolator their in the beginning .

 

[solarsavings]

Well that is not the OPs fault, it is a design fault and should be covered by a guarantee, or statuary rights.

I never said it was winston1.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

no on working on it has taken full responsible ,but I would argue that because he could not isolate it ,then it is down to the customer for not having a isolator their in the beginning .

But an isolator is not required. Nice to have maybe but not required.

 

[davidlynch20]

Another thing that supprised me was why the 32amp MCB tripped. A single oven usually comes with 1.5mm cable which is 20amp max. I would ahve expected this to be fused at 13amp . Should this appliance have a 13amp fuse which should have blown first before taking the 32amp MCB down.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Another thing that supprised me was why the 32amp MCB tripped. A single oven usually comes with 1.5mm cable which is 20amp max. I would ahve expected this to be fused at 13amp . Should this appliance have a 13amp fuse which should have blown first before taking the 32amp MCB down.

A 32a MCB is must faster than a 13a fuse and usually trips first on a short circuit.

 

[buzzlightyear]

to higher. fault current for that. That why the fault by past the 13 Amp fuse and on to the 32 amp mcb .

 

[Wilko]

I can't believe these boilers fail when the power is turned off . So does this mean if there's a power interruption it busts the boiler? Anyone tried that claim on the DNO? I must've turned the power off to "1000" boilers and I must be the luckiest bloke ever.

Is this another item for terms and conditions?
"Sorry but I won't be responsible for your #%#% boiler failing to operate after it has been safely isolated"

I need to take a pill.

 

[solarsavings]

Just seen this on another forum about a glowworm boiler.

Had one yesterday turned off at switch on boiler did combustion seal electrons etc come to turn back on bloody switch had failed. Open circuit, by pass switch thinking that will sort problem till I can get a new switch, it had taken the board out fetched a new board from suppliers 1 hr drive through traffic 6 o’clock all running,typical Friday afternoon. Any one had this before ?

I’ve had it on an ultracom where turning power off at the spur took the board out.

over years seen it mentioned quite a few times on here about it happening , joke that a boiler cant be turned off and back on again

Had it only once on Vaillant 6xx R1. Turned it off at the spur and when turned back on it took the board out

 

[Wilko]

Before isolating supply I now turn the boiler programmer off, wait for the boiler to go through it's cool down cycle and be silent, then push boiler on/off button, then the FCU then the main isolator. If it still dies can they please just shoot me?

Makes me laugh that we're to make people pay for surge protection to protect attached equipment from some "it might happen" surge event, but it's ok that these things can't even be turned off and on ???Something very very wrong here from a consumer perspective.

 

[Shoei]

Never take responsibility for failure of a boiler or anything else that fails just because power is interrupted. That boiler will be CE marked and if it can't survive a power interruption it's either faulty or non-compliant for CE.

If the owner of the boiler thinks it failed because the power went off briefly they should be talking to the boiler manufacturer and not the person cleaning their oven.

 

[KEV 1 N]

Boilers are nothing! I did the same to a control panel that operated 6 fume cupboards at the Chemistry Department! The panel was around 30 years old, and apparently would cost thousands to repair, luckily they had some spares! Again I only switched it off to try and identify unknown circuits in the DB.
This was planned maintenance and all equipment had (allegedly) been shut down so we could turn on/off what we needed.
No equipment should fail just because the power is lost then restored within a few seconds!