Hi all! Old(ish) spark looking to go it alone but unsure where to start?

pc1966 said:
Remember that working on your own has a lot of overheads (costs & time) so you need to be charging about double what you need for a reasonable salary.

Speak to an accountant about what is needed, they should be able to handle most of the stuff (for a fee...) in terms of tax and PAYE management. They can also advise you about trade off going sole, or Ltd company, etc as well as to VAT or not to VAT (short version, keep below threshold unless you can go comfortably above it to pay for extra paperwork).

As above, don't get in to a race to the bottom on pricing, keep to what is reasonable in your area for reputable sparks.

EICR are in such a race but demand is high, so make sure you sell yourself as doing it properly and fixing trivial things included in the cost (e.g. odd cracked socket) - give folk a reason to pay you a working wage instead of a drive-by monkey filling a form and not actually doing the safety work needed.
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Agreed. I have managed to get a sneaky peak at some invoices recently and it has given me a bit of a guideline to what sort of prices I should aim for.
I will definitely not undersell myself.

One of my friends is self employed (not an electrician) and I spoke to him last night, he has given me the number of his accountant. He gets tons of advice off him and he deals with everything too, there is no stress as he keeps good records. Sounds straightforward enough to me.

I would definitely be fixing broken sockets etc at my expense in order to increase my reputation! :)
 
Exponential said:
You've really inspired me with this info Pete! I read it and felt that my efforts will be rewarded especially seen as though you started out at exactly the same age as me! :)

Happy Birthday by the way! ?

I really do take pride in my work and enjoy the good feeling of the customer when the job is complete and I've handed over after explaining how their new "stuff" works.

I am a good electrician (not the quickest out there if I'm honest) but I take my time and make sure it's right first time. I've seen many sparks who rush through jobs but they end up being messy and badly installed with many short-cuts taken. I prefer to take that little longer. I don't see it as a bad thing really as I care about the end result.
I had the opportunity to take the cover off a CU a colleague installed a few weeks back and was shocked at the state of how it had been done. Really messy. It's no wonder he can get through a CU upgrade in less than 2 hours with work like that. I just couldn't put my name to that sort of workmanship.

It's even more important when working for yourself I guess, customer MUST be happy.....
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I started at the age of 41 @Exponential . It's bloody great being your own boss, although I wonder if you can only truly appreciate it if you have been employed for a long period of time, as some self employed electricians do not seem to like it. I love it! I love having to take complete responsibility for my day to day financial survival, it makes me feel far more alive than when I was employed.

Go for it, and good luck to you ?
 
He He, I used to sit in some meetings counting the £ I was earning listening to someone on the other side of a table talk about something I already knew, very therapeutic especially if they where supplying lunch as well.
 
happyhippydad said:
If it's purely EICR's then you don't need to be registered. However, If you want to get the remedial work as well then it's definitely going to be worth your while to get registered with a scheme. Basically it's NICEIC or Napit now as Stroma are part of Napit and I think elecsa is with the NICEIC (Certsure I think??!).

To be registered with a scheme you need the following ...

1. Public liability insurance (£2 million minimum). You dont need professional indemnity insurance, I am not too sure of the difference though.
2. Health and safety Policy. Don't let this title frighten you, it is just the same piece of paper used each year, just with the date changed.
View attachment 63993
3. Risk assessment template. Again, for a small one man band this is rarely used. I dont mean I don't make risk assessments, I do, however they tend to be automatic when you approach a job. I fill this in a little differently once a year when I have my assessment.
View attachment 63994

4. Up to date copy of BS7671. They will not accept an out of date copy.

5. In date calibration document for your multi function tester.

6. Complaints form, complaints procedure and complaints ledger. I just cant seem to attach them here, sorry.

7. Up to date copy of the building regulations. I have always shown them the Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet which they have always been happy with, see link Building regulations explanatory booklet (2005 amended reprint), Office of the Deputy Prime Minister - Publication Index | NBS - https://www.thenbs.com/PublicationIndex/documents/details?Pub=ODPM&DocID=276909
but this may be out of date. Worst case scenario is they ask you to find it online and send them a picture showing them you have found it.

8. Up to date copy of Part P approved document.

Approved Document P - Part P - Electrical Safety - Planning Portal

Details of Part P (Approved Document P) of the Building Regulations
www.planningportal.co.uk www.planningportal.co.uk

9. Evidence of learning.
This can be a tricky one for a small sole trader. Sometimes I don't have anything to show them and I am just honest. They suggest one or 2 sights to go on for some online training and that's that. It's never failed me. I do however usually have some simple bits to show them like an online manual handling course I have completed or a working at heights on line course. They are free and they keep the assessor happy.

10. Copy of the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) that you completed for the job you have carried out that you will be assessed on.

11. Have all the bits above ready and to hand. You will be stressed on your first assessment so don't add to that stress by not having things ready and organised.

12. Brush up on some of the BS7671 basics as they will ask you some basic questions about the regs.
I always quickly go through zones in bathrooms, safe isolation procedure and the correct testing order as these seem to be regular questions. Oh yes and they tend to ask me for some examples of where other parts of the building regulations relate to electrics.

For example part M... heights of sockets. can't think of any more, but I will do before my assessment!

13. You will pass. Even if you have a non-conformity, which is likely on your first assessment, they will simply ask you to remedy it and then send a picture into them, they will then pass you.

14. I forgot your qualification! Not sure about this as it has changed since I registered. Looks like you have to have level 3 now, but I am not sure.

15. This is for anything I have forgotten that the other members will fill in ?
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I cannot begin to tell you how this information will help me! Thankyou so much for this! :)

I have BS7671, OSG, Guide to building regs and guidance note 3 all are 18th edition so I'm covered in that regard. The H&S documentation etc I'll download and amend as required.

Evidence of learning: I take detailed pictures of every job I do and have them catalogued in a Onedrive folder. I did a similar thing at my previous employer as it not only proves you've completed the work but it also confirms the standard of the install.

Item 10: So I'll be completing a job then asking the customer to allow me to come back to be assessed on it at a later date?

I did my level 3 with AM2 back in 1999 and have 2394 & 2395 aswel as 18th editon. JIB Goldcard holder.
 
pc1966 said:
There will be occasional jobs you don't get paid for - that is part of the overheads you have to allow for. But if there is enough work you will be fine.

Also if your wife can handle some of the paperwork in any spare time it is a massive advantage, saves you doing that instead of the electrics you get paid for. Remember if you don't invoice you won't get paid!

Obvious I know, but I have had to chase some folk before to actually pay them!
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I expect to do a few freebies every now and then to be honest. I find gestures like that go a long way in securing future work!

I plan to teach the wife the joys of EasyCert :D
 
loz2754 said:
Good to see someone with high standards. You will do well. It may take some time to get established, but all it takes is a few regular contacts.
Another thing to consider - I don't know how many sparkies on here have a website. But I have found it to be essential. Doesn't have to be elaborate, but can help showcase your talents and help people to find you.
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I don't expect to be an overnight success story and I know it will take time to build up a decent client base.

A website? I think that would be a great idea! I follow David Savery on youtube and his website is awesome! Could only wish to have a site as professional as that!!
 
Exponential said:
I would definitely be fixing broken sockets etc at my expense in order to increase my reputation! :)
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Use some judgement, if the only thing between satisfactory and unsatisfactory is a C2/C1 for a broken socket or missing CU blank then fitting the ~£5 part is worth it for reputation. Make sure you tell them!

If it is more than you might as well leave all but C1 for later quote/work.

Some landlords & customers are right tight-fisted so-and-sos, but others would much rather have some agreement that if it is less than £100 or so to fix then just to do it at the time and save the hassle of having to make an appointment for access later to correct stuff. Saves your travel time as well. So discuss that before as a good owrking relationship with a few agents, etc, will keep you busy and properly paid.
 
happyhippydad said:
I started at the age of 41 @Exponential . It's bloody great being your own boss, although I wonder if you can only truly appreciate it if you have been employed for a long period of time, as some self employed electricians do not seem to like it. I love it! I love having to take complete responsibility for my day to day financial survival, it makes me feel far more alive than when I was employed.

Go for it, and good luck to you ?
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly!

Thanks for you kind words! :)
 
pc1966 said:
Use some judgement, if the only thing between satisfactory and unsatisfactory is a C2/C1 for a broken socket or missing CU blank then fitting the ~£5 part is worth it for reputation. Make sure you tell them!

If it is more than you might as well leave all but C1 for later quote/work.

Some landlords & customers are right tight-fisted so-and-sos, but others would much rather have some agreement that if it is less than £100 or so to fix then just to do it at the time and save the hassle of having to make an appointment for access later to correct stuff. Saves your travel time as well. So discuss that before as a good owrking relationship with a few agents, etc, will keep you busy and properly paid.
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Whenever I complete any works in a property I always make sure to discuss the completed work with the tenant before I leave so I know I have explained it adequately in a manner they will understand (how the new CU's RCD/SPD operates for example). I do the same for any newly installed accessory.

Agree on the tight fisted landlords!! Most of them pay through gritted teeth I imagine!

Can I touch on the "few agents" thing?

My intention is to be both PAYE for my current employer but be a sole trader for my own work which I will only be doing at weekends for now. I can't afford to just leave my current job just yet as it'll be too much of a risk! Mortgage to pay and all that...

Should I just go with one Estate Agent for now until I build the business?
How do you think the Estate Agent will react when I say I can only do Saturday's?
 
Exponential said:
My intention is to be both PAYE for my current employer but be a sole trader for my own work which I will only be doing at weekends for now. I can't afford to just leave my current job just yet as it'll be too much of a risk! Mortgage to pay and all that...
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As @Mike Johnson has pointed out you should check your current employment contract in case it has restrictions on competing work, etc.
Exponential said:
Should I just go with one Estate Agent for now until I build the business?
How do you think the Estate Agent will react when I say I can only do Saturday's?
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You would have to ask. Some might be happier as easier to get folk at home on weekends for any appointments (OK, current COVID-19 working from home has sort of changed that), others less happy at having to be contactable for any queries out of their working week.
 
when I say I can only do Saturday's?

what's wrong with Sundays, churches and pubs are shut, so get out and earn.?
 
Mike Johnson said:
Why are you still chasing out box's at 74 you must be mad or very annoyed at least.
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basically, due to having spent most of my working life self-employed, a few lean years short of stamps. reduced state pension just about covers essentials - beer and smokes. if i want to eat and pay bills i need to work, even if only a couple of days a week. apart from which, it gets me out of the house, away from Loose Women and that pratt Scofield. that in itself is as important as making a few squids.
 
I paid up on my stamps and got an offer from the Government to pay a proportion of the owed amount to get a full pension, obviously I took them up on the offer, doesn't do any harm to ask.
 
Mike Johnson said:
I paid up on my stamps and got an offer from the Government to pay a proportion of the owed amount to get a full pension, obviously I took them up on the offer, doesn't do any harm to ask.
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funny. had same offer. pay up the arrers and get a full pension. fair enough but.... full pension would have seen an increase per week of £30. arrears pay-off was £12,000. as my missing contributions were in the 80's where the NI was through the roof.
 
Mike Johnson said:
Only do Saturday's and evenings?

Check you current employment terms and conditions, you may not be able to work in the same capacity for yourself whilst employed by them and may have to get written permission to do so.
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I don't have a contract at all. There appear to be no rules where I work to be honest, just turn up and get the job done.
 
The guy I work for works off honesty and keeping things flexible. In this case, it will work in my favour. The last place I was at (for 6 years) frowned upon it if it infringed on the employers needs.

But, it was a company where, if you were a mate of the boss you could pretty much do what you wanted.

I wasn't a mate of the boss and didn't want to be either.. Not that kind of guy.
No brown nosing here....
 
Exponential said:
Item 10: So I'll be completing a job then asking the customer to allow me to come back to be assessed on it at a later date?
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You get to decide which job you show the assessor. I would think the vast majority of electricians on this site adhere to the regulations on all jobs, but there are some jobs you do where you just know you ticked all the boxes and there's no grey areas, so pick that job. Remember it at the time and make a note so you don't forget that that is the job you want to show the assessor. Perhaps a bit over the top, but it means I don't have to think back over all the jobs before assessment time.

Yes, you just let the customer know, or rather you ask their permission. You can let them know at the time that this may be a job that gets assessed, or at a later date. No customer has said 'no' so far.
 
happyhippydad said:
You get to decide which job you show the assessor. I would think the vast majority of electricians on this site adhere to the regulations on all jobs, but there are some jobs you do where you just know you ticked all the boxes and there's no grey areas, so pick that job. Remember it at the time and make a note so you don't forget that that is the job you want to show the assessor. Perhaps a bit over the top, but it means I don't have to think back over all the jobs before assessment time.

Yes, you just let the customer know, or rather you ask their permission. You can let them know at the time that this may be a job that gets assessed, or at a later date. No customer has said 'no' so far.
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This is absolutely fantastic information! I wasn't aware of this at all and was worried about how I would show them a job I hadn't even looked at yet.

Ok, I think I have enough information to actually start the ball rolling on my new venture thanks to you guys! :)
I will print off the crucial details on here and ring that accountant in the morning.

Onwards and upwards!
 
Sorry to keep harping on but does anyone care to offer insight into going with either NAPIT or NICEIC?

Do certain potential clientele prefer one over the other at all? I know that NICEIC is more established so more popular.....
 
Exponential said:
Sorry to keep harping on but does anyone care to offer insight into going with either NAPIT or NICEIC?

Do certain potential clientele prefer one over the other at all? I know that NICEIC is more established so more popular.....
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For the majority of electricians it really makes no difference who you are registered with. We just go with the cheapest, as all we want to do is be able to notify our work. However, I have seen one or two threads on here over the years where certain estate agents have stipulated an NICEIC electrician. That may well just be a mistake on their part, thinking that the NICEIC is the only registration body though. Others may have first hand knowledge of this.

I suppose if the prices are similar then it makes sense for you to choose NICEIC as the name is more recognised. I can't see it being a problem either way though.
 
Agree Easycert is about the best one I have come across it even tells you when you have inserted the decimal point in the wrong place, its about £180.00 up front cost and I think its £35.00/year for updates.
 
Hi all.

Just thought I would do a little update.

So I've set up both my public liability and public indemnity insurance (2 mil and 250k respectively), health & safety policy and complaints procedure documents.
I just need to get my risk assessment documents written out, get a UTR number and register with NAPIT.

I have my own MFT but its a Kewtech and I'm not really happy with it to be honest.
It tends to give wildly varying readings whereas the Megger MFT I use with my current employer is much more stable and has never let me down.
I'll probably end up buying my own Megger if I'm honest and along with it will come a current calibration certificate. :)

I have a family member (from my biological fathers side) who I'm in contact with and he wants me to look a full rewire next week in a 3 bed terraced which is a nice start.

I can use that rewire to show to the NAPIT assessor.....

Anyone help with a typical price for rewiring a 3 bed terraced up north?
Obviously pricing is something I'm going to have to get my head around pretty quickly!!
 
A lot of the people on here charge per point i.e. £50 per socket, light, switch plus for a new CU and inspection certificate, I don't know the costs tup north so £50 may be too much for your area.
 
There was a link to a YouTube video on here somewhere from some spark discussing pricing for a rewire on a reasonable sized property. He had priced it on time & materials but underestimated the time for various reasons, also he gave example of what it would have been doing per-point pricing and it was not massively different.

If it is for a friend/family you can afford to be a little less critical to price it in order to have something for the assessor, so probably worth looking at both approaches. Get a reasonably detailed list of what has to be done in terms of room sizes, fittings, number of circuits, etc, and make up a parts list for the big stuff. Then try to guess the little stuff (grommets, clips, label tape, etc) but remember it often adds up to more than you expect!

Try to guess at the time it will take, but probably it will be estimated in days (and probably wrong) and then see what it comes to.

Then try the same based on, say, £50 per point. See what sounds reasonable and believable.
 
Prices mentioned on here vary by a large degree depending on region, size of property, if occupied or not (and if the client is a likely pain in the posterior). But I see CU changes in the £0.5-1k range, and rewire in the £4-15k range.

Others on here who do this work professionally may be willing to give you some guidance in a less-public manner than posting here.
 

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