Hi, I'm new here, and also a new PA tester :)

[Adam W]

If it goes bang when you switch it on then it's broken - any idiot can see (and hear) that.

If management have decreed that you must use it by whatever means possible, perhaps you could outline the condition of this pillar drill in writing. As snowhead says you can't physically stop people using it, but management types are more likely to take notice if there's some kind of paper trail.

The law states:
"No electrical equipment shall be put into use where its strength and capability may be exceeded in such a way as may give rise to danger." (Electricity at Work Regulations 1989)
and
"Every employer shall ensure that work equipment is maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair."
(Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998)
Maybe put that in your letter.

 

[Dredj]

The machines I'm talking of are all in the workshop. There aren't any machines in the assembly area.

All machines have yearly servicing except the pillar drills which get repaired if needed, I don't know why it isn't happening this time.

The saw cutting out problem gets ignored because the service engineer doesn't have electrical diagrams every year since I've been working here the saw has had 3 services and it just got serviced in, June and all the extra problems the saw has now developed after the service so my company is blaming the engineer and are refusing to pay the service fee and the engineer won't come back to sort out these new problems until the service fee is paid.

The brake presses which I have not mentioned before have problems which also don't get resolved every year.

Just for clarity I am under no illusion that what I deal with at work is normal the entire workshop needs to be refurbished.

 

[ruston]

Even without a paper trail they are on a hiding to nowt.
Mines and quarries were better than Hercule Poirot.

Factories inspectorate will do the same.So will the police.

 

[ohreally]

Have a word in the safety reps ear...https://www.hse.gov.uk/forms/incident/f2533.pdf

 

[Adam W]

Oh yeah if the brown stuff hit the fan they'd get done for it, probably worse if there weren't a paper trail because they hadn't kept records, but that should be a last resort - the best solution would be if management pulled their finger out and got this stuff fixed, and the threat of written records which mean they can't just look the other way, put their fingers in their ears and deny all knowledge might be the kick up the bottom they need.

 

[ruston]

Oh yeah if the brown stuff hit the fan they'd get done for it, probably worse if there weren't a paper trail because they hadn't kept records, but that should be a last resort - the best solution would be if management pulled their finger out and got this stuff fixed, and the threat of written records which mean they can't just look the other way, put their fingers in their ears and deny all knowledge might be the kick up the bottom they need.

In the early days we had a fatal accident on the site . This was just at the onset of H&E.
It was mines and quarries with police presence that conducted the investigation.they missed nothing. No one would want to be a part of that ; believe me , best to do it right.

 

[davesparks]

You make it sound like we have a sentimental attachment to this pillar drill. We have no choice but to use it, the operators have informed management of the issue and they say it's working this way so use it. Until something is well and truly dead nothing will happen and that's why I'm asking for advice if under PAT testing conditions I can force their hand by declaring the pillar drill unsafe and have them replace it or have it repaired.

You have a choice, plain and simple, don't use it.

You have identified that there is a fault, you now need to make the responsible person aware of the fault, and make sure you have solid proof that you have made them aware (ie a copy of the written message you gave them). By noticing this problem and not taking the correct action you are putting liability on yourself.
If the management do nothing, or tell you to carry on using the equipment, then insist on having this instruction in writing, and the go to the HSE with it.

 

[davesparks]

Until something is well and truly dead nothing will happen

What about someone? This could easily result in someone being well and truly dead. And if that does happen then there will be a thorough investigation, so you better be damned sure that you've done everything you can to get this fixed or taken out of service, otherwise you could be joining the management on their way to a manslaughter conviction.

 

[ruston]

What about someone? This could easily result in someone being well and truly dead. And if that does happen then there will be a thorough investigation, so you better be damned sure that you've done everything you can to get this fixed or taken out of service, otherwise you could be joining the management on their way to a manslaughter conviction.

Absolutely. No messing

 

[davesparks]

Absolutely. No messing

There's two guys currently serving time after an incident in one of the industries I work in, despite there being nothing they could do to change what happened. Which is a little scary thinking that I am in an equivalent position and the exact same could happen to me.

 

[ruston]

There's two guys currently serving time after an incident in one of the industries I work in, despite there being nothing they could do to change what happened. Which is a little scary thinking that I am in an equivalent position and the exact same could happen to me.

Yes you have to be so careful. It was the same where I was . Production was everything, and downtime a major no no. Any accidents that blame could be passed down the line was the way they worked .
All of our machines usually took no prisoners owing to the size and nature of the work and conditions, anyone who had not stuck to procedures were sacrificed, but they were under pressure to complete tasks and move muck etc.
The top would let it go if nothing happened.

 

[davesparks]

Yes you have to be so careful. It was the same where I was . Production was everything, and downtime a major no no. Any accidents that blame could be passed down the line was the way they worked .
All of our machines usually took no prisoners owing to the size and nature of the work and conditions, anyone who had not stuck to procedures were sacrificed, but they were under pressure to complete tasks and move muck etc.
The top would let it go if nothing happened.

The incident I'm referring to is a bit different.
The unfortunate souls were two members of the fire brigade, who ignored their standing orders to not go in to this particular situation as there were no people in need of rescue and far too much danger from a fire which simply cannot be put out.

The blame landed on the two owners of the company which operates the site, despite them having no control over what the fire brigade do.

 

[ruston]

You are right , That is scary.
You are in a dangerous industry, It must be nerve racking owing to the nature of your work.

 

[davesparks]

You are right , That is scary.
You are in a dangerous industry, It must be nerve racking owing to the nature of your work.

We've learned from the mistake which started that particular fire!

It's an interesting one certainly, but perhaps not quite as dangerous as it sounds.
What is surprisingly dangerous is the comparison of the fireworks which are sold to the general public and those which only professionals can buy.
I've dismantled and modified a fair few of both (which we are fully licenced and registered to do) and the stuff available to the public isn't exactly well built!

 

[ruston]

and the stuff available to the public isn't exactly well built!

That is beginning to be a sign of the times now . Even in our industry.