High Ze | on ElectriciansForums
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nicsin02

Hi guys I've lived in my house for 6 years and decided to give it a test tonight, it is a t-n-s arrangement with the earth takin directly from the incoming cables metal sheath/enclosure, I tested a Ze and it actually sparked at the 1st attempt down at the Lucy block where the 16mm earth is connected to the 16mm earth going to me d/b, it left me with a reading of 26.2 ohms, I removed the cover of the block and got a few turns on each of the cables to tighten it, I retested and I got it down to 1.21 ohms, I know the maximum is 0.8ohms but I've never had anything anywhere near that b4, the earth cable onto the main incomer isn't the tightest so I was thinking of maybe trying a bonding clamp round it to try and bring it down as it appears to be only wrapped round it and souldered at the moment, it's worth mentioning that I carried out all my loop impedance test and they were all fine, shall I try and get it down myself or phone in the big suppliers cheers guys
 
It's their toy mate, let them play with it. It's their responsilbility to maintain their earth facility
If you were to do anything to get a reading within the limits and something were to go wrong then they would be putting your bottom in the sling
 
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This question got asked at one of the Elex shows to the big boys that front the 3 main schemes. Their reply was "As long as your Zs readings are within limits, we are not bothered about your Ze reading. Get the dno out if you want but we would'nt pull you up on putting a hgher than expected Ze on the cert if your Zs's are ok." (or words to those effect)

That surprised me a bit, their lack of care to the Ze when I always thought that it was a major thing? I must have been wrong all this time.
 
This question got asked at one of the Elex shows to the big boys that front the 3 main schemes. Their reply was "As long as your Zs readings are within limits, we are not bothered about your Ze reading. Get the dno out if you want but we would'nt pull you up on putting a hgher than expected Ze on the cert if your Zs's are ok." (or words to those effect)

That surprised me a bit, their lack of care to the Ze when I always thought that it was a major thing? I must have been wrong all this time.





yeah totally agree, I am a bit surprised that most of my Zs reading are actually smaller than my Ze, fairly new to testing and never expericened this b4
 
yeah totally agree, I am a bit surprised that most of my Zs reading are actually smaller than my Ze, fairly new to testing and never expericened this b4

If your Zs is lower than your Ze you have parallel earth return path, probably from the water/gas incomers.
 
Just shows the values of these 'schemes' I suppose, the problem with high readings is that they normally indicate a problem and that causes them to deteriorate rather quickly, 1.20 this test and 50 ohms next year as the last of the lead sheathing corrodes away. In my view its a major issue and requiures sorting by the DNO. I be happy to foxtrot oscar if my Zs's were ok but only once the DNO has been informed.
 
Under the Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations, 2002, the DNO should now provide a suitable means of earthing with all new installations. This is unfortunately not retrospective, in other words, they do not have to do the same for existing installations. In previous dealings with DNO's, responses have been mixed, some will attend if they feel there is a fault which they can rectify, others may just tell you to deal with it! In extreme circumstances when the Ze has been almost so high as to make it unuseable, I have even had to instal an earth electrode and RCD, and treat the system as a TT. You are miles away from that position!
In a true test of Ze, the installation should be isolated and the earthing conductor removed from the MET before testing. This removes all the parallel paths afforded by the protective bonding conductors and gives a 'worst case scenario' value for Ze. Obviously, when Zs values are measured, the earthing conductor and all the bonding conductors are in place, because we now have a live system. The re-introduction of all these parallel paths can often greatly reduce the Zs values, sometimes even lower than the Ze value! This is one good reason why we should not normally 'calculate' Zs values from Ze + R1 + R2, as this often bears no resemblance at all the actual measured value. (I only ever use calculated values on 'dead' installations waiting for a supply to be installed, purely to appease the DNO who want to see test sheets before livening up). And please do not use a 'bonding clamp' around the cable, they are not designed for that. Bonding clamps must only be used on solid pipes, they are not to be put around cables, armoured or otherwise.
If you feel that the earth connection is loose, or in danger of becoming detached, then lean on the DNO a bit and tell them that you feel it is dangerous. They should respond, and perhaps solve your dilemma. but if your Zs readings are still too high, you may have to consider RCD's ? Good luck.
 
Under the Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations, 2002, the DNO should now provide a suitable means of earthing with all new installations. This is unfortunately not retrospective, in other words, they do not have to do the same for existing installations. In previous dealings with DNO's, responses have been mixed, some will attend if they feel there is a fault which they can rectify, others may just tell you to deal with it! In extreme circumstances when the Ze has been almost so high as to make it unuseable, I have even had to instal an earth electrode and RCD, and treat the system as a TT. You are miles away from that position!
In a true test of Ze, the installation should be isolated and the earthing conductor removed from the MET before testing. This removes all the parallel paths afforded by the protective bonding conductors and gives a 'worst case scenario' value for Ze. Obviously, when Zs values are measured, the earthing conductor and all the bonding conductors are in place, because we now have a live system. The re-introduction of all these parallel paths can often greatly reduce the Zs values, sometimes even lower than the Ze value! This is one good reason why we should not normally 'calculate' Zs values from Ze + R1 + R2, as this often bears no resemblance at all the actual measured value. (I only ever use calculated values on 'dead' installations waiting for a supply to be installed, purely to appease the DNO who want to see test sheets before livening up). And please do not use a 'bonding clamp' around the cable, they are not designed for that. Bonding clamps must only be used on solid pipes, they are not to be put around cables, armoured or otherwise.
If you feel that the earth connection is loose, or in danger of becoming detached, then lean on the DNO a bit and tell them that you feel it is dangerous. They should respond, and perhaps solve your dilemma. but if your Zs readings are still too high, you may have to consider RCD's ? Good luck.

They are required to maintain existing earthing arrangements which were provided by themselves though, I work for a DNO and they know it but sometimes try to evade it.
 
Surely it isn't very practice to have to reliance on parallel paths to keep my Zs safe, in theory if my gas earth was disconnected my Zs would rocket?
 
This question got asked at one of the Elex shows to the big boys that front the 3 main schemes. Their reply was "As long as your Zs readings are within limits, we are not bothered about your Ze reading. Get the dno out if you want but we would'nt pull you up on putting a hgher than expected Ze on the cert if your Zs's are ok." (or words to those effect)

That surprised me a bit, their lack of care to the Ze when I always thought that it was a major thing? I must have been wrong all this time.

So why the hell do they ask for it on the certificates they have on there website (Elesa does, I know NIC do on the one you can purchase do also).
 

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