Hmmm, mind where you walk.....

[hotXbun]

I'm working in a small housing estate circa 1960 (ish). All the houses are wired with no earth to the lighting circuits. Many of the houses have metal light fittings. Many have boarded lofts. Many have CU's not up to date. .... ok ..... so:

Any electrical work is being carried out as part of some other improvement. In this case, I'm putting in a new bathroom. Up in the part boarded loft, the existing 6mm T&E supply has been fed to a junction box and out comes 2- 2.5 T&E ( one to whirlpool bath, other to double SSO in bedroom ) and the 6mm T&E then continues on to the second bathroom shower... I might add that the second bathroom shower has been fitted by son and the pull cord operating that shower had lost it's pull cord and customer has asked me to replace the cord (which I have done) so she can use second bathroom .... the existing lighting is to 3 dodgy downlights in the bathroom (I'm working on) - one is directly above the shower head - I would judge no more than 200mm away! Together with the downlights, there are 3 !! pull cord switches - one redundant, one to centre light and other controlling 2 more lights. Cables wired between various fittings is 1.0mm T&E with earth wire charmingly cut back and all connections via fully exposed bits of terminal strip .... am beginning to feel it looks like one of my old jobs .... actually, this almost certainly what I uncover in virtually all my jobs for many a year

So, assuming you still reading this, would you agree with my reasoning:

1. I can advise customer on state of work required and ask if she would like an estimate for work necessary to bring standard up to 17th Edition. She doesn't have to accept.
2. I can leave as is and all is well, but.... I am involved ....
3. So, obviously I can put in new lights and wire up lights and presumably I could grab an earth from a locally placed socket outlet in the loft?
4. Presumably I cover my backside by noting deviations from regs on test certificate but where does this leave customer should she decide to leave as is?
5. Lastly, if I re-cord the pull cord to the pull cord switch controlling the shower, do I have to then test it out?

Thanks,

Stewart

 

[wigan]

hotXbun,

No 3 yes you can share the earth and that is what I would do initially to make the lights safe in the bathroom.

Reg 543.1.2 & Reg 543.1.3 (page 128)which basically means the protective conductor must be sufficient for the worst case.
I would connect with the 6mm T&E cpc.

My house 1967 didn't have cpc to light fittings, only found out when mrs wanted to change the lights in bathroom, I had fitted shower few years previously (long before taking 2330 etc) so I dropped cpc from light into it going with the idea they all meet in cu :-o. Discussed on course. As for regs I decided to do the 2380-10 instead of 2380-20 made me read regs more and thats how I found it, since got adaptable box in loft with earth bar and connected all upstairs lights this way.

BTW the ESC has a guide for cu change that says if no earth and class I fittings then fit RCD, could be easier.

Is the shower RCD protected?

 

[marksparky]

each circuit should have its own cpc so no u couldnt grab an earth from the nearest socket outlet.

 

[hotXbun]

hotXbun,

No 3 yes you can share the earth and that is what I would do initially to make the lights safe in the bathroom.

Reg 543.1.2 & Reg 543.1.3 (page 128)which basically means the protective conductor must be sufficient for the worst case.
I would connect with the 6mm T&E cpc.

My house 1967 didn't have cpc to light fittings, only found out when mrs wanted to change the lights in bathroom, I had fitted shower few years previously (long before taking 2330 etc) so I dropped cpc from light into it going with the idea they all meet in cu :-o. Discussed on course. As for regs I decided to do the 2380-10 instead of 2380-20 made me read regs more and thats how I found it, since got adaptable box in loft with earth bar and connected all upstairs lights this way.

BTW the ESC has a guide for cu change that says if no earth and class I fittings then fit RCD, could be easier.

Is the shower RCD protected?

Thanks for that At the moment the CU only has RCDs on the power circuits and I will be modifying it to include proper RCD protection to all circuits. I've been chatting with client and we've decided to investigate and see if I can take a dedicated 1.5mm T&E from the CU in the garage and see what problems will be encountered. Also I am going to re-connect the shower supply with a 17th edition junction box - all secure and tidy - before testing it out.

Having looked at section 543 - Protective Conductors, I'll certainly consider using this as a reference so thanks for pointing that out

 

[Anonomoose]

Pull the main fuse,put it in your pocket and put a condemned sign on the CU

Do electricians have the power to condem installations if they are bad?

 

[Mac]

No,they don't.You can advise the customer what a death trap it is thou.