Hot tub has uncomfortable current only from outside and grounded.

[chadtoth24]

I am a very knowledgeable DIYer with no issues on any beginner to intermediate wiring because my father is a retired electrician.

The issue:
I have a safety issue I am concerned it might be an expensive discovery mission if I hire an electrician early on so trying to narrow down to am easy fix or a hire with resolution. I have a hot tub that never had issues until recently. I happen to be barefoot outside the tub and touched the water and felt current. Not horrible but uncomfortable. I only feel it if grounded. Had been in and out of tub for who knows how long using mats and never had an issue until the mat was removed. It was then I first noticed.

The facts:
The 220 runs under ground to a exterior ground fault close by the tub which then goes back underground all the way to a 200 amp panel. It has a dedicated 60 amp breaker in the panel. Pavers is what surrounds the tub base. I originally did all the install. Again, never had an issue for past 4 years.

Thoughts:
I feel like there is a grounding issue but can't be sure. I also wonder if the charge is coming from another open wire nearby or something. The tub gfi isn't tripping so I feel like the issue might be another wire or maybe my gfi is old. I tripped it so it does work. The only changes between before and now was 6 months ago, hot tub mechanic added a new pump motor and maybe that is the issue. Could that be sending a current through the water? Again, because of the artifical turf mats acting as a ground barrier, I can't be sure when this started. Any ideas. I can take pictures of any and all. Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[cliffed]

What’s the supply sounds like maybe Tncs concerns obviously do the usual tests on the cable,& I Cetainly would opt for a TT system .

 

[littlespark]

What’s the supply sounds like maybe Tncs concerns obviously do the usual tests on the cable,& I Cetainly would opt for a TT system .

OP is in Michigan. I don’t think he’ll know what those mean.

Another one for @Megawatt methinks

 

[James]

I think the important point is to unplug it until it’s safety can be checked and repaired.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - yes, to feel tingles the water is at a different potential to the Earth you are standing on. This indicates a fault and it could get worse at any time so I’d definitely stop using the hot tub. To find the fault you are probably going to need some test equipment.

 

[cliffed]

OP is in Michigan. I don’t think he’ll know what those mean.

Another one for @Megawatt methinks

Oh missed that bit?

 

[UKMeterman]

Turn it off and DO NOT USE untill it has been inspected by a qualified electrician. Tingles means there is about 0.0005 of an amp flowing, death can occour at about 0.05 of an amp.

 

[andyb]

I am a very knowledgeable DIYer with no issues on any beginner to intermediate wiring because my father is a retired electrician.

You're 'very knowledgeable' because your dad was an electrician?

 

[pc1966]

The tub gfi isn't tripping so I feel like the issue might be another wire or maybe my gfi is old. I tripped it so it does work.

There are two possible reasons that come to my mind:

• There is a hot tub or wiring fault, but the fault current is not enough yet to trip the GFCI. That could change with possibly fatal consequences.
• Your incoming supply is showing an uncomfortably high neutral/earth voltage to true Earth, perhaps due to issues with the utility feed, or maybe because your local earth rods and not effective. In this case the GFCI will do nothing, as it is not looking at earth (ground) current at all, it is looking at an imbalance between the line and neutral (hot & cold) of the monitored load.

Typically I think (again, one here for @Megawatt ) that USA GFCI trip at 6mA, as they are usually per-appliance, where as the RCD used in UK/EU trip at 30mA as typically the protect multiple appliances. But what you have to remember is that GFCI/RCD do not limit the current, they limit the exposure time at a current above the trip threshold! And that also assumes they are working as intended.

In both cases you really should get a professional in to check these sort of possibilities out.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I shall try and remain calm in my reply.
You are a 'very knowledgeable' DIYer who is walking around in bare feet getting electric shocks. I'm assuming you haven't got an electrician in yet as you want to save money. Is it just you there or are their others, perhaps children? You need switch the hot tub off, don't allow anyone to go near it and get an electrician in.

 

[littlespark]

Calm down.

back in #4, the OP was advised to turn it off and get an electrician in. We don’t know if he has or hasn’t turned it off yet, as he hasn’t been on to inform us ...
I’m sure he’ll get a spark out on Monday.

You’re assuming he’s ignored the advice and carrying on risking his families life.

He’s either waiting to hear what the electrician says, or he’s been scared off.


And I would think the child of an electrician would have more knowledge, and respect of the magical art of electron management than say, the son of a plumber.