House Earth

[gorilla]

Just wanting to get some opinions about a Earth issue.

Now I'm only a student just now so not that sure about the regulations and that when it comes to electrics.

Basically a family friend was supposed to be getting a new central heating system installed on Friday by Scottish Gas, but the job couldn't be done because the house wasn't Earthed, the electrician that was there said he couldn't sort that and the electric board would need to come out to sort it.

Now I find this kind of strange as I thought that in the UK a house always has an Earth Connection and also if one had to be installed an Electrician could do it.

So since there was no Earth her new central heating system wasn't installed and won't be done for at least three weeks.

I was just wanting to know about Earthing a property (I'm not doing it Scottish Power are coming out to do it) and what is the standard thing to do if an earth isn't found.

 

[sirocco]

Do you mean the 10mm ,s to gas meter and incoming water, or do you mean there is no earth in the property as a whole?
If its the gas and water bonds don,t get the board to do it, it will cost the earth, beg the pun but it would, you put em in be a lot cheaper for yer freind.

Johnny,
I had to put a 10mm protective conductor to the incoming services in a 1930's house I was working in recently.

It raised an old chestnut re the water main.
Should you bond to the lead (probably the first 10meters of pipe) or the copper (the last 0.5 m where the kitchen cold tap was) ? or doesn't it matter provided that the right type of clamp is used.
Whats the view?

 

[claire_r]

can they not just upgrade the system to a tncs? just out of interest does anyone know how much this costs, if any price, to the consumer?

 

[Spudnik]

does anyone know how much this costs, if any price, to the consumer?

"Normally" free.

Contact the DNO and ask for a PME enquiry at the site address.

 

[gorilla]

can they not just upgrade the system to a tncs? just out of interest does anyone know how much this costs, if any price, to the consumer?

Scottish Power don't do it free. They can charge anything from a couple of hundred up wards. I did supply a list of questions for our friend to ask since I couldn't be there and the Scottish Power electrician was good and wrote down the answers for me, and all the questions were answered the way I thought they would apart from the cost one as I thought it was a free service as well.

 

[johnnyb]

sirocco, you bond to within 600mm on the consumers side of the cold water stop tap, or where its practicably possible after that, and that goes for lead or copper.

 

[gorilla]

Well after getting a electrician into look at this. The problem has been resolved. Copper Bar inserted into the ground and connected into the consumer unit.

Gas main and Water Supply earthing systems replaced. All electrics checked and working well no problems.

Scottish Gas contractor comes on Tuesday to do the central heating install, will it be OK this time? If it isn't I give up, there is nothing more that can be done to earth the property apart from demolish it.

 

[spark1]

Well gorilla, im glad to hear the earthing problem is now sorted out!, just a point to consider tough,.....If the Earth rod and Equipotential protective bonding to gas and water have all been renewed. it seems to suggest that some upgrading/remedial work was indeed required ...otherwise why was it carried out ? maybe .just maybe the Scottish Power spark did have a valid point after all....he sounds to me like a competant fella ..remember the rules ..NO Additions or Alterations unless Earthing and Bonding have been verified.



regards...........spark1

 

[EddieB]

Same happened to me the other week. I was there to do a couple of lights in the kitchen and replace new for old sockets.I put the loop teser on just to be sure and it gave a reading of something like 55 ohms.I know these properties are TNS as i've had a similar problem in the same street and I looked at the service head, sure enough no phsysical earth. The last time I found this I put a tenby on the lead sheath of the incomer and put a 16mm to a Earth block and then up to the Consumer unit (incidently this was a wylex skeleton unit a right pig to get a 16mm earth into) as a temporary fix. I called the distributor EDF and then the fun started, absolutely nobody wanted to know about it, EDF said it's not us it must be the supplier,although the bills were headed with the EDF Logo. So as of now we have a tenby clamp (frowned upon by the NIEC and probably everybody else) as the only phsical earth to the property. But hey what do you do if nobody will admit responsibility to owning the problem. God bless Mr Tenby!!

 

[gorilla]

Well gorilla, im glad to hear the earthing problem is now sorted out!, just a point to consider tough,.....If the Earth rod and Equipotential protective bonding to gas and water have all been renewed. it seems to suggest that some upgrading/remedial work was indeed required ...otherwise why was it carried out ? maybe .just maybe the Scottish Power spark did have a valid point after all....he sounds to me like a competant fella ..remember the rules ..NO Additions or Alterations unless Earthing and Bonding have been verified.

regards...........spark1

(Scottish Gas, not Scottish Power. Just to clear that up.)

There weren't any problems found when our Electrician was there doing the work. He tested everything first without any modifications and everything was fine. As we expected, but since there was this issue with Scottish Gas contracted electrician saying it wasn't good. We decided that it was best to replace the earth point for the house as well as the Water Supply and Gas Supply earths, even though it didn't require it.

The Scottish Power guy who came out when we reported it to them about the property wasn't earthed came out and had a look and couldn't see anything wrong either even when he tested it everything was normal. The only thing that was a problem was the fact that the Earth Wire was of the old colour of just green but even at that it was still fine.

The only thing that annoys me now about this is that the Scottish Gas contracted Electrician could have easily installed the Copper earthing rod and the bonding of the gas and water supply's, but he didn't he just passed the buck and had our friend left worried about it.

Anyway we will know if it meets his approval on Tuesday. It should as it has all been checked and certified as good by our Electrician, who is just a bit confused by the situation as well as he just didn't find any problems in the first place.

 

[spark1]

Sorry but did i misinterpret one of your earlier posts were you stated the Scottish power Sparks told you that an earth bar should be installed To Improve The situation.
If that was the case then to improve the situation must mean that the existing condition would benefit from the earth bar installation..therefore safety improved !
Just one other point if the colour of the earthing was green on the Bonding to the Gas and Water then this would indicate that it was installed to an earlier standard [maybe 6mm] and an upgrade to 10mm would probably have been required.........on the other hand if the earth you refer to was the Main Earth, then 6mm would suffice on a TT system


Just a few thoughts following your latest post.




Regards.................spark1

 

[gorilla]

Sorry but did i misinterpret one of your earlier posts were you stated the Scottish power Sparks told you that an earth bar should be installed To Improve The situation.
If that was the case then to improve the situation must mean that the existing condition would benefit from the earth bar installation..therefore safety improved !
Just one other point if the colour of the earthing was green on the Bonding to the Gas and Water then this would indicate that it was installed to an earlier standard [maybe 6mm] and an upgrade to 10mm would probably have been required.........on the other hand if the earth you refer to was the Main Earth, then 6mm would suffice on a TT system


Just a few thoughts following your latest post.




Regards.................spark1

It was the main earth that was green insulation and 6mm. The other two were green/yellow 6mm. But as I said the bits that was there were all sufficient for the requirements and are now replaced. Glad it is sorted though and the advice I have had here has been great, just hope that on Tuesday everything is OK.