How to eliminate nuisance tripping due to neutral-earth faults.....

[Phil Mumford]

I have it ! EUREKA ! Just cut the main earthing conductor and job done !

OK just kidding, but shouldn't the 17th edition have gone further and stated that all circuits will be protected by RCBO's?

You can now buy an RCBO for a tenner.

While I am having a rant lets do away with the ring main - WHAT A CROCK ! I come across so many that are open circuit due to alterations/additions. What is wrong with radials? Much safer in my opinion.

I would appreciate any comments so that I can judge whether I am delusional or just slightly mad.....

 

[patricklondon]

when 17th first came out i thought that the tripping of one circuit not being allowed to interfere with the use of others (seriously miquoting here) meant that rcbo's wouls have to be in use all round as you prefer. it would make life a little easier in the long run too by minimising nuisance tripping. of course you know you can already follow your own recommendation

 

[young spark]

RCBO tenner, really?

 

[Phil Mumford]

I have seen them online. Google PDQ electrical supplies for example - CED RCBO £9.99 + VAT. Not sure what delivery would be but I expect it would depend on the qty.

 

[willosparky]

sounds like an appliance you are plugging in has a fault on it.

 

[Notsosmart]

sounds like an appliance you are plugging in has a fault on it.

At a tenner an RCBO then twin rcd boards are obsolete already

In some ways I agree with you Phil that radials are preferable but at current copper prices it won't happen soon & the ever expanding use of electronic goods reducing diversity then it will almost end up as a socket per radial, or 6mm T&E

How about the much (?) heralded induction sockets; it will be interesting to see how the regs cover these (& part P) ~ although I wonder how people with heart pacemakers are going to cope

 

[Darkwood]

AS mentioned above its a price of copper issue that saw the introduction of ring mains in britain many yrs ago, but its just stuck, hence for the need of fuses in plug tops here but not abroad, but from what i hear on the grapevine ringmains will be phased out to level us up to european wiring practices,personel opinion its good in theory less chance of safety issues but in practice its going to go against a tradition and be a slow and painful introduction.

 

[electricAl]

AS mentioned above its a price of copper issue that saw the introduction of ring mains in britain many yrs ago, but its just stuck, hence for the need of fuses in plug tops here but not abroad, but from what i hear on the grapevine ringmains will be phased out to level us up to european wiring practices,personel opinion its good in theory less chance of safety issues but in practice its going to go against a tradition and be a slow and painful introduction.

I hadn`t heard that but i`m not wholly surprised. We`re hurtling towards being Europeans in every sector so it`s probably inevitable.

Bit sad tho. Kinda enjoy the idea that we`re a little different than the Continentals and the good ole Ring Main is one of not so many things left that accentuates this difference.

But, i guess, whilst the conception of the idea was brilliant, RFCs are so abused (& shockingly misunderstood) on such a broad scale it`s probably inevitable.

If only they could ban all the ***** on TV like X Factor & Britains got absolutely no talent i guess it`d be a good tradeoff.
But they won`t of course.

 

[andy33gmail]

Hi guys,

I can't find a forum that really matches my problem, mostly because I have two. As background, I've lived in this house four months. In that time, I've spurred a socket and changed some light fittings - otherwise not touched anything.

My kitchen sockets started tripping recently - so now they're just permanently off, and the fridge is plugged into the cooker switch's socket. This didn't seem like an urgent issue - it was isolated. I had my Dad bring a meter when he was around - and we detected a N-E resistance of 0.5 ohms - i.e. a short.

However, it suddenly dawned on me that the neutral is not switched on individual circuits on my consumer unit - so the N-E fault must be present on all circuits - somehow without tripping the main isolator. Looking at the unit now, I see that the neutral wire bypasses the isolator entirely! That is, even if I turned off the big red switch, the neutral is still connected, and still shorting to Earth. Of course, there must separately be a L-E or L-N fault on the kitchen circuits - maybe a blessing in disguise having brought this to my attention!

Is there any reason for live to be connected to Earth? I thought that that was no longer done and there should be an earth rod? Presumably the previous owners rather recklessly tried to cover up the fault?

Given the house has somehow not caught fire in all that time, how immediate is the danger I'm in? And can anyone recommend an electrician in the Cambridge area?

 

[andy33gmail]

Second thoughts - panic over. There appear to be two places to bolt live and two places to bolt neutral - which seems odd - the neutral _does_ definately go through the isolator.

However, given there's an N-E fault on one circuit, and the individual switches don't switch N, does that not suggest there's an N-E fault present EVERYWHERE? If so, why has the red isolator not tripped? Will be be a thermal fuse instead of an RCD?

 

[Deleted member 19807]

the red isolator is just that an isolator not an mcb or rcd it won't trip, its just a switch. I think you need someone who knows what he is doing to sort it out. Where are you?

 

[andy33gmail]

Swavesey, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire.

So is there no protection on the neutral whatsoever - and does the not need to be any? What stops a neutral-earth fault causing a wire to overheat and cause a fire? Is there never enough voltage?

As an aside - I've unscrewed everything in the kitchen and broken the ring at every single outlet. It still trips - so I presume a L-E or L-N fault on one of the wires that runs to the kitchen - so the fault should lie with one of those, or the breaker itself.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Swavesey, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire.

So is there no protection on the neutral whatsoever - and does the not need to be any? What stops a neutral-earth fault causing a wire to overheat and cause a fire? Is there never enough voltage?

As an aside - I've unscrewed everything in the kitchen and broken the ring at every single outlet. It still trips - so I presume a L-E or L-N fault on one of the wires that runs to the kitchen - so the fault should lie with one of those, or the breaker itself.

Andy, swallow your pride and call an electrician, from the questions you are asking, I seriously doubt your competence to trace and rectify this fault safely.

 

[andy33gmail]

Can you advise how to find someone suitable? That is, how to avoid cowboys or people who charge excessively?

What sort of hourly rate / callout / number of hours or cost per job should I be looking at? I realise we're talking ballpark figures, but I really have no idea at all. Tens? Hundreds? Thousands?

 

[Phil]

post a thread here with a description of the job and your location (not address) ask members to contact you direct via pm. please don`t post phone numbers etc but feel free to pm (private message) someone your contact details. i am sure someone local off here will pop round and give you a price