How to tell if mains sockets are on same circuit?

[Spoon]

Shame the OP didn't update us when he viewed the thread...

Do we have spy software..

 

[Octopus]

Do we have spy software..

No. You can see this on a persons profile

 

[OttoF]

As it’s multistory you may we’ll find the installation is three phase so there’s s very good chance the circuits may not be on the same phase.

Powerlines don’t need to be on the same circuit to work but they do need to be in the same phase.

I think all the communal area electrics are on their own meter and consumer unit, but I'm not absolutely sure. Hence, the need to test.

I have Powerline Adapters at home, and use them across circuits (upstairs ring main crossing to downstairs). However, I do appreciate that trying to carry a broadband connection across separate consumer units is difficult, if not impossible due to phase changes.

The plan is... to use a wireless bridge to cross between consumer units, then use Powerline Adapters once I know I'm on (at least) the same consumer unit electrics.

 

[Spoon]

No. You can see this on a persons profile

Ok. Learn something new each day..

 

[OttoF]

As it’s multistory you may we’ll find the installation is three phase so there’s s very good chance the circuits may not be on the same phase.

Powerlines don’t need to be on the same circuit to work but they do need to be in the same phase.

Thanks for this. I previously read up on the limitations of PLAs across different phases. What you've said seems to confirm what I've read.

I use PLAs at home which cross-over downstairs ring mains and upstairs ring mains. However, I've also read that it's best practice to stay on the same breaker circuit (if possible), to assure the best network connection stability and speed.

My plan is... to create a standalone network in the communal area. Once I've done this, then create a wireless bridge between one of the properties (that already has broadband and WiFi router), to join with the new communal area network.

The idea of the wireless bridge is to avoid any issues with PLAs trying to cross phases, etc.

I've have spare wireless routers and PLAs left over from previous projects, so it's the most cost-effective solution... as well as being a lot less hassle than running hundreds of meters of ethernet cable.

 

[OttoF]

Plug in a socket tester, turn one breaker off, and continue process. If they turn off on the same breaker they will be on the same circuit. If one goes off and the other doesn't they won't be

Ideally, that would be the easiest option. However, as I've said, I cannot interrupt the power to any of the circuits because of some of the equipment that is attached.

The problem is, various electricians (pro and DIY) have been the property over the past 25 years making amendments, and there are sockets and spurs in a variety of places across multiple floors, some hidden.

There's even one breaker that has "planter" written under it, and nobody has a clue what this is.

Thanks anyway. Totally logical reply, but unfortunately not applicable in my situation.

 

[OttoF]

Get a socket tester that beeps when there is no power to the socket, so you can hear the socket is off from a distance and don’t have to go back to the socket and check the LEDs on the tester.
To check whether two sockets are on the same phase, you need to use a voltage tester or multimeter.
Using some kind of adapters, connect the two probes to each of the sockets live pin receptacles.
If the measured voltage is 400V, then they are on different phases.
If the measured voltage is 230V, then you have incorrect polarity on one of the sockets.
If the measured voltage is zero, then after confirming each socket has power, they are on the same phase.

Thanks for this. TBH, I'm not confident with sticking probes into live sockets. If that was my only option, at that point I'd call in a professional.

I'm quite happy working on circuitry at the wall when I know for certain it has been isolated, but that's as far as I would comfortably go.

A previous reply has suggested using a Circuit Breaker Tester. They are cheap, and as I'll be insulated from the mains using one of these, that device includes the safety feature I'm looking for.

 

[OttoF]

I would forget this idea ............... there are too many pitfalls ........ Powerline are normally OK in single phase properties .......... but I've seen them struggle between RCD's

So if you have 3 phase, RCD's and long circuits ...............

Just saying

Whats this for BTW?

Sure. Point taken, but as I am testing a solution at the moment, I don't want to rule anything out.

I appreciate PLAs have their limitations, but while the possibility remains, it will cost me only my time (and a Circuit Breaker Tester) to trial this option.

Also, if I am able to create a new network on the communal side of the property, then it leaves it open in future for expansion to add other devices. That's the plan anyway.

 

[OttoF]

Those powerline things kick out massive amounts of rf interference, you will wipe out your fm and dab reception

Thanks for the advice. Not worried about that though. Due to a separate (and massive) block of flats on the side of a hill in direct line of sight to the local transmitter, this entire property has zero analogue or digital reception.

Everyone in the property at our end has either satellite or cable services to compensate for the loss of over-the-air services.

 

[OttoF]

Rereading the OP, the socket circuit should be marked, so there should be no risk in turning off cctv, alarms etc.

If it’s only around 1 communal area, and the server/ router is in the same place, power line should work ok, but same reasoning, Wi-fi should work too.

Are the sockets themselves marked up with a label with a circuit number on them?

Thank you. Couldn't agree more. The breakers SHOULD all be marked appropriately.

However, the reality is that there have been a number of amendments over the past 25 years, and it's less than clear which breaker controls what circuit.

The suggested solution seems to be with the purchase of a Circuit Breaker Tester. It's within my budget for this job, so seems to fit the criteria of my situation.

 

[OttoF]

Is this addition a requested feature,by all the tenants,or a surprise Christmas present?

Ha! Made me laugh.

It's a "gift" of sorts. Well, for some of the tenants at least. It's part of a package of security upgrades, both physical and electronic. I have family living in the building, so I'm trying to help by taking on these jobs so that they can afford to redecorate the communal areas. So, that's why there are budget constraints.

They've had a couple of break-ins recently, and also some fire damage due to malicious activity.

The local constabulary don't give a hoot apparently due to the property being located in a "bad area". Its not a bad area though. It's just one of these places in the UK where the kids have nothing better to do, are therefore miserable, and there's nobody doing anything to help them.

However, kicking-in locked doors does not constitute a crime (according to the police officer whose sole job it is to monitor just 2 streets in the city), because "nothing was stolen".

I believe a complaint has been raised against Police Scotland on the grounds of not investigating these break-ins (and arson).

There used to be a factor for this property, but they were worse than useless, and did nothing to secure the building. When asked about additional security measures, the quote they came back with was astronomical. The factor was eventually sacked after failing to maintain the fire detection system.

I've already fortified the main entrance with a heavy duty electric strike and steel flat plate. Storerooms on each floor have also been repaired and had additional locking points installed. New vandal-resistant lighting installed inside and out. The new online CCTV (when up and running) should act as both a deterrent, and also give the tenants some comfort.

So... thank you to all who contributed with advice. Your replies are helping keep people safe, and feeling more comfortable in their own homes.

 

[OttoF]

Shame the OP didn't update us when he viewed the thread...

Ha! I'm replying as fast as I can (on my lunch break)! Give me a chance!

Did you notice the time of the OP? I'm working all hours at the moment my friend... and for free!

Anyway, I hope this thread also serves as a useful jumping off point for anyone looking to test a similar situation.

 

[OttoF]

Do we have spy software..

Sorry. I don't know what you mean. Am I spying on you? Are you spying on me? I hope the answer to both is "no".

I'm just looking for a bit of help so I can help others. I'm not sure where spying fits into this?

 

[OttoF]

... apart from "spying" on malicious activity in and around communal areas of the building using CCTV. I think it's warranted in the circumstances.

Is that what you are referring to?

 

[Octopus]

Out of interest, what do the free holders of the building think about your plans?