“HRRB” regs and EICR’s

[LukeD]

Its like fighting a argument with idiots at times !
OK.


EICR . Building 6 floors Floors high . legal interior height is ground floor to top floor flooring level 15.51 metres . Yet been told that AFD’s need to be fitted . So ..I show them the regs as I believe and also the Gov portal page for the legal measuring of a building to determine if its under 18m . Building documents show 6 floors . Building insurance docs show 6 floors !


So why is there some conflict ??? Unless someone just thinks they can make money from the Job ??

 

[LukeD]

Did you say the circuits have been upgraded to rcbos ?.


AFDDs are required when carrying out new electrical installation work in the types of buildings mentioned previously, whether it is a complete installation or an addition or alteration to an existing circuit.

The apartment was re wired few years ago. All good as gold . RCBO”s on ICR etc .SPD added and 3 extra radials . All RCBO’s . All testing for EICR now . Results readings all GOOD> But the question of AFD’’s has opened a can of worms as one flat has just been passed without them (as there seems to be NO law to say they are required . And ‘this job becomes an issue as its been fed to someone that there should be AFD’s .Now its like a bloody migraine . And One I feel technically. AFD”s could be “recommended “ But cannot be used as a reason to issue a C code

 

[westward10]

Why are you involved, I really don't understand some of your posts.

 

[LukeD]

Why are you involved, I really don't understand some of your posts.

Let’s deal with the question of what’s right or wrong ...

 

[davesparks]

“Recommended “ , but not a issue for a EICR to be “failed” . As the legal requirement has been met by fitting RCBO’s

An EICR cannot 'fail' at all, it can only be satisfactory or unsatisfactory.

The issue of AFDDs should, in my opinion, be a C3 could observation if any and so not automatically result in an unsatisfactory result.

 

[LukeD]

An EICR cannot 'fail' at all, it can only be satisfactory or unsatisfactory.

The issue of AFDDs should, in my opinion, be a C3 could observation if any and so not automatically result in an unsatisfactory result.

Its a pass or no pass situation ! Like a cars MOT ...any legal jargon can be used .Buts its either passed or failed ! I thought about the C3 option but then again why even a C3 ? Both requirements for them to be used has not been proven correct as I have proven them incorrect . Building height and amount of floors . Having to tell someone how a building is measured Is weird. They thought it was from top of building down etc . Despite showing them the legal , they still say “its over 18m “ . So ,so far , no one has said they are REQUIRED within this thread .

 

[mainline]

It’s a pass or no pass situation ! Like a cars MOT ...any legal jargon can be used .Buts its either passed or failed ! I thought about the C3 option but then again why even a C3 ? Both requirements for them to be used has not been proven correct as I have proven them incorrect . Building height and amount of floors . Having to tell someone how a building is measured Is weird. They thought it was from top of building down etc . Despite showing them the legal , they still say “it’s over 18m “ . So ,so far , no one has said they are REQUIRED within this thread .

A Mot is not simply a pass or fail advisories being the equivalent of c3s.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

From post 11.

The requirements of BS 7671 are not retrospective, so, existing installations do not require upgrading.

So they don't need to be fitted in your case.

 

[mainline]

From post 11.

The requirements of BS 7671 are not retrospective, so, existing installations do not require upgrading.

So they don't need to be fitted in your case.

It is where alterations to the circuits have been done.

 

[LukeD]

A Mot is not simply a pass or fail advisories being the equivalent of c3s.

Yes C3 ,s would be advisories . But ask 1000 people what a MOT test means in regards to been able to continue to use the car . Its failed or passed . That simple . A EICR is the same ...unless its good , you cannot rent out if you are wanting to let etc . Things in life are simple ..its either right /wrong/. Legal /illegal/. Passed or failed the rest is word salad

 

[mainline]

Yes C3 ,s would be advisories . But ask 1000 people what a MOT test means in regards to been able to continue to use the car . Its failed or passed . That simple . A EICR is the same ...unless it’s good , you cannot rent out if you are wanting to let etc . Things in life are simple ..it’s either right /wrong/. Legal /illegal/. Passed or failed the rest is word salad

I can see on a mot sheet where it says fail.
I can’t see where it says the same on the Eicr one.

At the end of the day everyone understands the term Fail but using the wrong terminology does sound less professional.

It’s like many electricians use the term Buzzz bar instead of Bus bar.

Ps it’s usually the ones that have the velocity bags, designer work boots and shorts

 

[LukeD]

I can see on a mot sheet where it says fail.
I can’t see where it says the same on the Eicr one.

At the end of the day everyone understands the term Fail but using the wrong terminology does sound less professional.

It’s like many electricians use the term Buzzz bar instead of Bus bar.

Ps it’s usually the ones that have the velocity bags, designer work boots and shorts

So true !

 

[davesparks]

Its a pass or no pass situation ! Like a cars MOT ...any legal jargon can be used .Buts its either passed or failed !

It's not legal jargon, it's plain English with specific meanings.
An MOT and an EICR are different things.
An MOT is a legally required examination of a vehicle which can have a pass or fail result. If a vehicle fails an MOT it cannot legally be driven on the road (except to be driven to a test centre within reasonable distance for a retest)
An EICR is a report on the condition of an electrical installation, it describes the condition of the installation with an overall assessment of either satisfactory or unsatisfactory. You cannot pass of fail a condition report.

I thought about the C3 option but then again why even a C3 ? Both requirements for them to be used has not been proven correct as I have proven them incorrect .

If the regulations would require AFDDs to be installed if this was a new installation and the addition of AFDDs to this installation could improve safety then you give it a C3.

If you as the inspector have assessed it as not needing AFDDs then don't record anything on the report.
You are inspecting the installation and you are writing the report.

 

[davesparks]

From post 11.

The requirements of BS 7671 are not retrospective, so, existing installations do not require upgrading.

So they don't need to be fitted in your case.

That's irrelevant.

The question is about an EICR and that is carried out to the current edition of the wiring regulations regardless of when it was installed.

 

[davesparks]

Yes C3 ,s would be advisories . But ask 1000 people what a MOT test means in regards to been able to continue to use the car . Its failed or passed . That simple . A EICR is the same ...unless its good , you cannot rent out if you are wanting to let etc . Things in life are simple ..its either right /wrong/. Legal /illegal/. Passed or failed the rest is word salad

Yes if a vehicle fails an MOT it cannot be used on public roads.

But if an installation is found to be unsatisfactory on an EICR it is not prevented from being used, you don't isolate the installation at the end of the testing of you find it to be unsatisfactory.

 

[davesparks]

A Mot is not simply a pass or fail advisories being the equivalent of c3s.

MOT advisories are not similar to a C3 observation on an EICR.

An MOT advisory identifies items on a vehicle which are worn/deteriorated but not to the point of failing the MOT and will likely require repair before the next MOT.
Advisories are not recommendations of alterations you could make to a vehicle to improve its safety.

A C3 observation on an EICR is a recommendation for and alteration which could bead made to an installation which could improve safety.