Hunt caught out

[Englishman]

My misses gets enhanced payments for weekends and night shifts so some NHS workers do......

I know full well that they do. Some NHS workers also refuse to accept a full time contract, and instead choose to work part time on contract, and then fill in the other few days of the week as an agency worker so that they earn more money. Unfortunately, because the NHS budget goes up every year, there are a lot of people who want to jump on the gravy train.

 

[Octopus]

I know full well that they do. Some NHS workers also refuse to accept a full time contract, and instead choose to work part time on contract, and then fill in the other few days of the week as an agency worker so that they earn more money. Unfortunately, because the NHS budget goes up every year, there are a lot of people who want to jump on the gravy train.

Where my misses works they are NOT allowed to work as agency in the same hospital. If people choose to do this they can BUT they won't be topping up their more than generous NHS pensions when doing agency work....

Now if you are a copper, and you need to fill out reports, you automatically get overtime. Not so in midwifery!

 

[shanky887614]

from what I've seen what a lot are complaining about is that it is just junior doctors that will be 7 days a week at the moment. what good is having doctors and nurses 7 days a week when essential services like surgeons and xray staff are not.

if they brought staff onto a standard shift pattern for example 4 on 4 off nights followed by days i dont think people would mind so much rather than working 7 days a week.

or even having some staff work. mon-fri others wed-sun and others on night shift with some on call etc.

 

[sean_ork]

I'm rather right wing actually .....

I've got plenty of complaints about how the NHS is run, not just by the nasty party, but its only them who clearly want the concept of free at the point of use destroyed.


Let's start with how its run as a marketplace, do your own research if you don't understand what that means - it effectively costs an extra 10-20 billion - that's a lot of Doctors wages.


How about the 6,000 ex NHS workers given overly generous redundancy payments, who have since been reemployed by the NHS (often on higher rates) - that's cost around 2 billion - that's again a lot of Doctors wages


The introduction of the health and social care act, yet another "top down" reorganisation, only advocated by politicians, hated by care givers - costing approx 5 billion, saving ?


How about the way that many patients private medical records have been released to private health firms, yet have decided that their awarding billions worth of NHS contracts should be protected by the freedom of information act ?


I could go on, and on and on, theres tens and tens of billions of pounds being wasted.


Yet the nasty party have (despite having 3 years to solve the issue) decided that the only way to make progress was imposition - thus alienating en mass the backbone of the entire NHS. - they've even managed to turn the dispute into another of their much loved anti union missions.


And they want us to beleive they are the party of the NHS


BS

 

[Octopus]

I'm rather right wing actually .....

I've got plenty of complaints about how the NHS is run, not just by the nasty party, but its only them who clearly want the concept of free at the point of use destroyed.


Let's start with how its run as a marketplace, do your own research if you don't understand what that means - it effectively costs an extra 10-20 billion - that's a lot of Doctors wages.


How about the 6,000 ex NHS workers given overly generous redundancy payments, who have since been reemployed by the NHS (often on higher rates) - that's cost around 2 billion - that's again a lot of Doctors wages


The introduction of the health and social care act, yet another "top down" reorganisation, only advocated by politicians, hated by care givers - costing approx 5 billion, saving ?


How about the way that many patients private medical records have been released to private health firms, yet have decided that their awarding billions worth of NHS contracts should be protected by the freedom of information act ?


I could go on, and on and on, theres tens and tens of billions of pounds being wasted.


Yet the nasty party have (despite having 3 years to solve the issue) decided that the only way to make progress was imposition - thus alienating en mass the backbone of the entire NHS. - they've even managed to turn the dispute into another of their much loved anti union missions.


And they want us to beleive they are the party of the NHS


BS

Really? Like to see that quantified.

What I don't understand is that both Germany and France spend more than us on healthcare - yet they don't have the NHS - so how do they deliver it.

As far as I'm concerned the NHS is like British Leyland in the 1970's - trying to be al things to all people AND failing badly. If the private sector can do knee ops (for example) cheaper and more effectively, then let the NHS pay them to do it.

 

[sean_ork]

Really? Like to see that quantified.

What I don't understand is that both Germany and France spend more than us on healthcare - yet they don't have the NHS - so how do they deliver it.

As far as I'm concerned the NHS is like British Leyland in the 1970's - trying to be al things to all people AND failing badly. If the private sector can do knee ops (for example) cheaper and more effectively, then let the NHS pay them to do it.

It's been quantified by numerous folks, each obviously keen to promote their own agenda - but the estimates are between 5 and 30 billion of addition costs, so perhaps my estimate at an average was a little low - I'm all for private company's being given (for example) joint replacement contracts, if they are more effective, but the fact that such contracts have their commercial details exempt for the freedom of information act makes me wonder what if any savings they are making. Perhaps they are worried about the number of MPs who have commercial interests in these private providers becoming public knowledge ?


There wasn't much wrong with BL, just far to many managers and not enough engineers - same with the NHS, to many overpaid paper pushers and not enough care givers.

 

[Octopus]

It's been quantified by numerous folks, each obviously keen to promote their own agenda - but the estimates are between 5 and 30 billion of addition costs, Really - this is very vague


There wasn't much wrong with BL, just far to many managers and not enough engineers - same with the NHS, to many overpaid paper pushers and not enough care givers.

Apart from:

The Mini
Maxi
Allegro
Princess
SD1
Toledo
Triumph 2000

etc etc

Badge engineering of poorly engineered cars, produced on aged production lines by rebellious workers..... whilst the Germans and Japanese concentrated on a handful of well engineered cars that didn't rust to pieces in a handful of years.

 

[sean_ork]

Cars designed by managers and committees are doomed to fail, an NHS run by politicians and "managers" will have a similar fate. There's plenty of engineering legacy that came out of BL that's proved the value of the engineering - not sure the same could be said about their management and marketing.

Yep those figures are vauge, but that's statistics for you, I'll leave you to find figures that suit you sir - but I'm yet to see a report that mentions a saving.

 

[sean_ork]

Badge engineering of poorly engineered cars, produced on aged production lines by rebellious workers..... whilst the Germans and Japanese concentrated on a handful of well engineered cars that didn't rust to pieces in a handful of years.

Badge engineering ?


You mean the Acclaim, based on Honda's Ballade


Or the 800, based on the Legend


How about 213 and 216 ? where did that come from ?


The mini, yep like all cars of that era they were designed to rust - but the longevity of the concept can't be questioned - how about the K series engine ?


I'm not so sure your castigation of BL for badge engineering stacks up.


OK maybe the beige Allegro with an almost square steering wheel that my grandfather owned wasn't great.

 

[Octopus]

Badge engineering ?


You mean the Acclaim, based on Honda's Ballade


Or the 800, based on the Legend


How about 213 and 216 ? where did that come from ?


The mini, yep like all cars of that era they were designed to rust - but the longevity of the concept can't be questioned - how about the K series engine ?


I'm not so sure your castigation of BL for badge engineering stacks up.


OK maybe the beige Allegro with an almost square steering wheel that my grandfather owned wasn't great.

Hum... so the Morris ---, the Austin... the Vanden Plas ....the Wolesley ...

Just change the badges and a few bits of trim!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princ..._.2F_Morris_.2F_Wolseley_18.E2.80.9322_Series

for example

 

[sean_ork]

Hum... so the Morris ---, the Austin... the Vanden Plas ....the Wolesley ...

Just change the badges and a few bits of trim!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princ..._.2F_Morris_.2F_Wolseley_18.E2.80.9322_Series

for example

That's not badge engineering, that's just making use of components produced within the same group - that's just a product of how BL came to be, the amalgamation of a number of Companys making one big one.


Honda, totally separate Company.

 

[Midwest]

and don't be so lazy, do your own research, form your own opinions, do some thinking

Ok, I'll Google it or look in the Daily Mail.

 

[Midwest]

Hum... so the Morris ---, the Austin... the Vanden Plas ....the Wolesley ...

Just change the badges and a few bits of trim!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princ..._.2F_Morris_.2F_Wolseley_18.E2.80.9322_Series

for example

I take exception with you Sir, BL cars were brill; we had Morris Oxford, Austin 1100, Morris Marina later Ital, not to mention the Princess. All hand made, cos the machines that put them together never did it right, and the humans had to fix em!