I Think I May Have Found Free Renewable Energy

[ajay123]

Hi guys, so a 180 watt motor is powerful enough to spin a 3000 watt generator, meaning that the generator makes enough power to power the motor, and yea I know if you include all the energy losses such as losses from heat, mechanical movement and even sound, then the generator will end up making for example 2500 watt or slightly less and that's still enough power to power the motor, so ovisously the motor will need to be connected to the mains power supply to begin with but once the generator has got up to full speed it can be switched to the generator power, I thought that can anyone tell me why know one has done this yet or tell me if this system would work or not, this system seems over 100 percent efficient. Thank you.

 

[Darkwood]

Hi ajay123..

The reason no one hasn't achieved this yet is that its a pipe dream and is impossible, it breaks the fundemental laws of physics, you cannot create more energy than you put in and quite rightly as you say you have to consider all the losses, using a small motor to spin a large one isn't too hard if you size it correcly but the fact it may be spinning even at plated speed means nothing as it is unloaded, try loading up the generator up and you'll probably see the smaller motor go into overload and trip its protection. I don't know how you are measuring the output of the generator here but you need to remember it has high inertia and for a short brief moment you can measure these outputs but with load these reading would collapsed very quickly.

 

[Rpa07]

Back to the drawing board ajay - but hey, it's not even 10 o'clock yet - there's still time in the day for another go. If we believe in it, we'll back it and 'you'll be rich beyond you wildest dreams' or assassinated by the big oil companies! Have a good day. Oh and Darkwood - how could you shoot a mans dreams down before breakfast? - just cruel!

 

[ajay123]

Thank you darkwood, but what if you had a battery connected to the motor and then the generator charged the battery up at the same time

 

[ajay123]

Thank you Rpa07 for the support

 

[Darkwood]

I've heard of people putting thousands of pounds into trying to develope what we would call perpetual machines, now do not get me wrong here, some of these are initially not stupid people and its easy to get lost in the dream of inventing such a device if you jump around the internet and believe the claims made but usually what is a common trait here is a lack of knowledge in physics and I would ask anyone interested in this subject to read up on the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics both of which would be violated if you somehow made such a magical device, now the laws we follow to understand the universe do have some flaws when we try to explain some quantum interations but that is probably do to the fact we don't fully understand the quantum world yet and how our applied laws work in it, on the whole in the macro world they have proved over and over again to be correct and we design most of our technology around these laws with success so the idea that someone could invent a device that creates more energy that it is given is fantasy IMHO and any reputable scientist out there will back me up on that.

 

[ajay123]

I still don't understand that even with these energy losses, the generator is still making enough power to supply the motor though.

 

[Darkwood]

Thank you darkwood, but what if you had a battery connected to the motor and then the generator charged the battery up at the same time

You're looking at things the wrong way, a battery is a load and whether your trying to boil a 3kw kettle or charge a battery the answer is the same, your small powered motor is doing the work albeit through an extended system which will incur more losses than running direct of the initial power supply you have plugged your motor into.

Consider a moped coupled to the back of a car, with a little push its easy to use the bike to push the car along a road on the flat, now consider that your road start to incline, the inertia of the car would take it a little way but once this is lost the moped would see the incline and the weight of the car as too great and could no longer push the vehicle any further, this is a simlar set up to what you mentioned to show what I mean about loading the generator up, or hitting an incline as in the car/moped analogy. Now start the Generator up on its own power source or the car and the load/hill can be maintained.

 

[ajay123]

You're looking at things the wrong way, a battery is a load and whether your trying to boil a 3kw kettle or charge a battery the answer is the same, your small powered motor is doing the work albeit through an extended system which will incur more losses than running direct of the initial power supply you have plugged your motor into.

Consider a moped coupled to the back of a car, with a little push its easy to use the bike to push the car along a road on the flat, now consider that your road start to incline, the inertia of the car would take it a little way but once this is lost the moped would see the incline and the weight of the car as too great and could no longer push the vehicle any further, this is a simlar set up to what you mentioned to show what I mean about loading the generator up, or hitting an incline as in the car/moped analogy. Now start the Generator up on its own power source or the car and the load/hill can be maintained.

Ahh right I understand now, however I don't want to seem too annoying by asking too many questions but let's say if you connect a step up transformer to the generator so that it creates 230 volts then couldn't you use that as a mains supply for the motor again?

 

[Wilko]

Hi - unfortunately there is no lossless transformer, so you will always get out a little less than you put in. The energy doesn't disappear, but it is lost as heat. Cheers, David.

 

[ajay123]

Hi - unfortunately there is no lossless transformer, so you will always get out a little less than you put in. The energy doesn't disappear, but it is lost as heat. Cheers, David.

Hi, thank you for your reply but yea I know all transformers will have losses from heat but voltage created from a 230 volt transformer with the heat loss included, will produce let's say 220 volts, and a motor can still work on a 220 volt supple even tho it's rated to 230v to 250v

 

[Darkwood]

Ahh right I understand now, however I don't want to seem too annoying by asking too many questions but let's say if you connect a step up transformer to the generator so that it creates 230 volts then couldn't you use that as a mains supply for the motor again?

No because you ignoring the losses, Ive just explained you cannot generate more energy than you put in and given what I believe is a nice analogy to explain it, it is simple to move a large object with a small motor although it may take some time, once the large object is moving it has alot of potential energy and all the small motor in you case is doing is keeping it going by topping it up against the friction forces it encounters, the moment you add a load which works against the saved up potential energy of the large object then it is quickly drained and the small motor will be load saturated trying to maintain it, in the idea of a generator making an output to run the motor that turns it will hit the same brick wall where the inertia (potential energy) will be quickly used up in a very short time and thus the available power would drop on the output and since your tring to run the motor of this then you are trapped in a vicious circle of decline as it cannot maintain the generator which then outputs less power which power the motor trying to maintain the generators output. On graph paper the power output would start to fall as the stored potential energy is used up then it would crash down in a near vertical line until it all stops.

 

[Darkwood]

Hi, thank you for your reply but yea I know all transformers will have losses from heat but voltage created from a 230 volt transformer with the heat loss included, will produce let's say 220 volts, and a motor can still work on a 220 volt supple even tho it's rated to 230v to 250v

Your concept of the voltage here is misleading you, just because you the correct voltage does not mean you have enough available power behind it to do what you need it to do, voltage is only the potential difference between two points, its the current you need to maintain at the required voltage to keep your load working.

 

[ajay123]

No because you ignoring the losses, Ive just explained you cannot generate more energy than you put in and given what I believe is a nice analogy to explain it, it is simple to move a large object with a small motor although it may take some time, once the large object is moving it has alot of potential energy and all the small motor in you case is doing is keeping it going by topping it up against the friction forces it encounters, the moment you add a load which works against the saved up potential energy of the large object then it is quickly drained and the small motor will be load saturated trying to maintain it, in the idea of a generator making an output to run the motor that turns it will hit the same brick wall where the inertia (potential energy) will be quickly used up in a very short time and thus the available power would drop on the output and since your tring to run the motor of this then you are trapped in a vicious circle of decline as it cannot maintain the generator which then outputs less power which power the motor trying to maintain the generators output. On graph paper the power output would start to fall as the stored potential energy is used up then it would crash down in a near vertical line until it all stops.

Ok thank you for that useful information I really appreciate it, you seem to know what you are taking about and you seem to have a wide vocabulary, may I ask what is your job if you don't mind telling

 

[Wilko]

Hi Ajay, yes you are right, but voltage is only the potential to do work and needs current flow to produce power (P=V.I). The current flow is reduced by the voltage losses and impedances in the cct, so always less power out than went in (lost as heat somewhere). Some of this is fixed by operating the cct at -273c temp, but creating that takes energy too. Cheers, David.