Ideal twist connectors

[stan794]

Any of you guys using the Twist connectors from Ideal?
On a recent Kitchen refurb/extension my spark used them on the lighting circuit and LABC are moaning saying they are prone to causing electrical fires. I must admit I prefer wagos myself but these twisters are to BS7671 so why are they moaning... ****ers

 

[Farmelectrics]

still small jbs for me

 

[telectrix]

line for me. yesterday got 6 1.5mm into a line enclosure with connectors. try doing that in a 2" round screw JB.

 

[Sintra]

Any of you guys using the Twist connectors from Ideal?
On a recent Kitchen refurb/extension my spark used them on the lighting circuit and LABC are moaning saying they are prone to causing electrical fires. I must admit I prefer wagos myself but these twisters are to BS7671 so why are they moaning... ****ers

Wouldn't use those twisters in a million years. Are you sure they have a bs / en number?

 

[stan794]

The box is covered in stickers saying compliant with BS7671. My spark always uses them on lighting, never had a problem before with LABC.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Keep an eye on this thread Stan, Eng54's imminent response might amuse you!

 

[stan794]

Lol, I take it these things are crap. Wagos from now on then

 

[timbobelfast]

They are called 'Fire Nuts' for a reason!

 

[Engineer54]

Any of you guys using the Twist connectors from Ideal?
On a recent Kitchen refurb/extension my spark used them on the lighting circuit and LABC are moaning saying they are prone to causing electrical fires. I must admit I prefer wagos myself but these twisters are to BS7671 so why are they moaning... ****ers

Keep an eye on this thread Stan, Eng54's imminent response might amuse you

!

Haha....​

At least your LABC have some sense it seems!!

Don't touch those fire nuts, the only place those things are commonly used are in the States and countries where they follow NFPA 70 (NEC). They are known to be the major cause of electrical fires in their domestic installations, but the numb nuts still insist on using them. Literary any other form of connector is going to be better than those bloody things!!

I'd be quite shocked to learn they conform to BS 7671, They would need their own BS/EN number to even come close, ....and if they did it would be another area of BS7671 that i would be ignoring!! I think it was in one of the 14th editions of the reg's where it actually stated that twister connectors are NO longer recommended as means of connecting two or more conductors....

 

[Des 56]

Not that I have ever used them and likely never will

They are surely not designed for solid core conductors ?
I am presuming that solid core was the case

 

[Farmelectrics]

any pictures

 

[matt1386]

Ideal Twister Wire Connector - YouTube

 

[Engineer54]

Not that I have ever used them and likely never will

They are surely not designed for solid core conductors ?
I am presuming that solid core was the case

I wouldn't of thought so myself, but many of the Yanks wire and cables are indeed solid core. They need to be, as the standard terminal connection on their over sized light switches and dual socket outlets are by means of wrapping round a captive screw!! That's Yanks for you... lol!!

 

[Des 56]

Thank you matt for that link
It seems my thoughts were wrong and they are for solid core as explained by eng 54

The guy did a good demonstration.but twisting a solid core in that way would make me feel very uneasy and I can well understand the building inspector saying "not on my patch"
if I were him,it would be the same action

 

[Knobhead]

They've never been any good. Screwit's bought out a plastic version 30 years ago. Wouldn't trust them at all.

 

[7029 dave]

The only twist connectors I know of, were the old dog cocks. (porcelain type affair) lol.

 

[worzol99]

They sell them in neweys

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Watched the link, my thoughts: crap!

 

[markc123]

Same here.

I'd rather use a chock-block than them lol. Wago's all the way!

 

[Aindowsimon]

You mention chock block . the ones that are brass within , and I'm not saying all of them I'm experiencing a lot of them splitting recently a nuisance somthing I notice on a few existing installations to we're they have broken anyone else experiencing this . I'm now getting connectors with the innerds made of steel takes a few more cores to double thumbs up

 

[stan794]

Below is the reply from Ideal that I received after asking their tech department..


It is unfortunate that you have had issues with your local inspector because we worked closely with bodies such as the Electrical Safety Council and NICEIC well before putting these connectors onto the UK market. Both organisations fully evaluated these products and I can categorically state that the NICEIC (if that is who you are referring to) from a head office perspective have no issues with IDEAL's twist-on wire connectors. However, individual inspectors may harbour their own prejudices and these can usually be overcome by demonstrating the product to them and proving compliance to BS 7671. Loosening of the connector is unlikely to happen (assuming the connector is applied to the wires correctly in the first place) due to the conical shaped spring inside that grips the wires tightly.

I have attached a Q&A sheet that was produced to specifically address any questions an electrician or inspector may have, so it may be worth showing this to the person concerned.
Failing that, if you provide the name of the individual and the name of the registered body that they work for, we can take this matter up with them directly.

Rest assured that there are many electricians using IDEAL Twist-On wire connectors in the UK without any problems, but in this case it looks like we have a local inspector that is making up his own rules.

 

[overskilled]

Yess electrical have them as do neweys, edmunsons I think also.
UL stamped (US approval), look crap and don't trust them at all....though looks like the profit margin is nice and fat on them so of course stores stock them......I'm guessing its to capitalise on the whole US TV thing.....
Used them when living in canada...not too bad, but impossible to split cores for testing...
Converted another spark from chocblocks to wagos the other day, landlord got him in to check the house wiring to convince the DNO the issues were on their side (having 2 separate sparks sign off the house wiring convinced them finally), he hadn't seem them before, bit dubious to start with but after using them...he was sold on them and was going to ask his boss to order some as a time saver...
Wire nuts...yuck!

 

[paul wild]

Wago for me

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Converted a spark off choc blocks.... So will he never use another CU?

thats all they are. A giant choc block!

 

[overskilled]

Spartykus: Very droll mate.
To clarify: In terms of using within enclosures, looped in back boxes etc...

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Fair point... Sorry beers talking....

 

[overskilled]

Its alright mate, I was in the military so I'm used to "witty" comments ;-)
I'm drinking rum at the moment...trying to kill the pain in my shoulder...

 

[HandySparks]

You mention chock block . the ones that are brass within , and I'm not saying all of them I'm experiencing a lot of them splitting recently a nuisance somthing I notice on a few existing installations to we're they have broken anyone else experiencing this . I'm now getting connectors with the innerds made of steel takes a few more cores to double thumbs up

Yes, come across several incorporated in downlights. Do them up snugly and they either split or strip the thread. I guess they're making them thin to save pennies on brass.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Its alright mate, I was in the military so I'm used to "witty" comments ;-)
I'm drinking rum at the moment...trying to kill the pain in my shoulder...

rum? So you were in the Navy.....

whats with the shoulder

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, come across several incorporated in downlights. Do them up snugly and they either split or strip the thread. I guess they're making them thin to save pennies on brass.

Yes noticed this too.

 

[overskilled]

rum? So you were in the Navy.....

whats with the shoulder

Actually I was...Weapons Engineering Officer...
I stretched, it made a loud cracking/popping sound, couple of hours later started to really hurt and been hurting like mad since.

 

[Engineer54]

Below is the reply from Ideal that I received after asking their tech department..


It is unfortunate that you have had issues with your local inspector because we worked closely with bodies such as the Electrical Safety Council and NICEIC well before putting these connectors onto the UK market. Both organisations fully evaluated these products and I can categorically state that the NICEIC (if that is who you are referring to) from a head office perspective have no issues with IDEAL's twist-on wire connectors. However, individual inspectors may harbour their own prejudices and these can usually be overcome by demonstrating the product to them and proving compliance to BS 7671. Loosening of the connector is unlikely to happen (assuming the connector is applied to the wires correctly in the first place) due to the conical shaped spring inside that grips the wires tightly.

I have attached a Q&A sheet that was produced to specifically address any questions an electrician or inspector may have, so it may be worth showing this to the person concerned.
Failing that, if you provide the name of the individual and the name of the registered body that they work for, we can take this matter up with them directly.

Rest assured that there are many electricians using IDEAL Twist-On wire connectors in the UK without any problems, but in this case it looks like we have a local inspector that is making up his own rules.

Niceic strikes the bottom of the pits again, not only them but the so-called the ESC!! lol!!

Now my question is, if they have submitted these twisters to the ESC for evaluation, why didn't Ideal give you the ESC evaluation report number or a link to that evaluation report?? Come to that, why haven't Ideal submitted their products for BS/EN APPROVAL??

As for the NICEIC, they are a non-entity as far as any standards are concerned and are getting involved in areas they have no right to be. Basically as i see it these wing twisters are UL listed only, and that they carry no such approval listing in the UK or Europe. Now if you have seen some of the stuff that that i have, that carries UL listed status you'll understand just how unimpressed i am!! lol!!

As i stated before leave these twister connectors on the wholesalers shelves, they have no place in any electricians material stores!!

 

[PEG]

Those fire-nuts are perfectly acceptable,as i was telling my poorly 5 year old the other morning,as i applied his leeches.....

 

[Lucien Nunes]

And I always keep a sheep's-bladder full of them in my donkey cart. Much quicker to use than lighting the coals in the brazier to heat the iron every time I want to make a joint.

 

[gnuuser]

even though Im a US spark I have used wagos now since they came out here and prefer them to wire nuts/twist connectors
the hardest part is getting apprentices to understand is when using wire nuts is they must twist stranded wire in the same direction as tightening the twist connector.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Never used them but my guess is that they would be ok if properly used. Experienced sparks will make a good connection with virtually anything,you instinctively get a feel for a good connection or a bad one.Less experienced will make a pigs ear of any type of connector.

 

[old_sparky_RE]

I don't use them when I'm working on a 50Hz system I go with choc blocks and I have to be forced into using them on a 60Hz by the company.
The BGB says in Reg 511 that if something is covered by a Harmonized Standard then you can use anything as long as it is approved by the IEC and a Harmonized Standard.

The amount of re-wires we do because of these 'fire' nuts is great because it's keeping me in work.
They are an accident waiting to happen !