I'll start this week's

[rapparee]

Drugs are a scourge, about 15 years ago there wouldn't have been much drug use in my area due to threat to dealers from paramilitaries, now with the peace process (good thing) the men with wooly faces have left the stage, however this has left the way clear for drugs to flourish, heroin is now available in my area, zombie junkies are up to criminality to fund their habit, personally i believe there should be a bigger crack down on drugs not less.

P.S. i've never taken any illegal drugs in my life

 

[dingledong]

Specs be more specific where exactly are these spotty girls with no teeth offering a good time for a fiver

 

[trev]

In theory the idea is good But in practise how would it be. Most of the druggies I see on the streets in one of the areas I work in use crime to support the habit they have. How would these legal drugs be sold, would it reduce crime or increase it. I like the idea of getting rid of so called drug lords but I cannot see an easy way of selling these substances. would we have drug shops on the high st ( sorry) the shops themselves would become targets of the addicts and the area would be full of people hustling you for a fiver for a cup of tea. Its bad enough now with skeleton like girls with no teeth and full of spots promising you a good time for fiver. It's a good idea IF it can be done, but It needs a bit of thought behind it.

On X date possession of all currently controlled recreational drugs will cease to be a criminal offence. The government then allow labs to produce the stuff under strict conditions (much like the medical drugs trade now) the labs can sell to government licenced companies (like some substances are sold under control now) who can then sell to the public under similar strict conditions from Y date.
It can be done and it wouldn't be too difficult. I'm sorry to keep banging on about them but Portugal has not seen any increase in what is (laughably) called anti social behaviour since decriminalisation. Quite the opposite in fact, if they can do it why can't we?
There'll always be those who want to seek oblivion and will do anything to attain that goal but I walked through a park yesterday with my grandson at 10 AM there was a bunch of about 15 alcoholics already **** faced. Alcohol is completely legal.

 

[dingledong]

Trevor this is over a bloody quote . I can understand if I said I would start Monday and then not turn up but a quote unbelievable

 

[trev]

Drugs are a scourge, about 15 years ago there wouldn't have been much drug use in my area due to threat to dealers from paramilitaries, now with the peace process (good thing) the men with wooly faces have left the stage, however this has left the way clear for drugs to flourish, heroin is now available in my area, zombie junkies are up to criminality to fund their habit, personally i believe there should be a bigger crack down on drugs not less.

P.S. i've never taken any illegal drugs in my life

If it were legal there would be less of the criminal element because the government is going to be getting the take from it not dealer A who is hated by dealer B because he's got a bigger slice of the pie.
I'll ask you about the Portugal thing as well.
No one is coming up with anything worthwhile to say about that. That's why I'm banging on about it.
PS, I have but not for a very long time but that is not why I started this.

 

[rapparee]

On X date possession of all currently controlled recreational drugs will cease to be a criminal offence. The government then allow labs to produce the stuff under strict conditions (much like the medical drugs trade now) the labs can sell to government licenced companies (like some substances are sold under control now) who can then sell to the public under similar strict conditions from Y date.
It can be done and it wouldn't be too difficult. I'm sorry to keep banging on about them but Portugal has not seen any increase in what is (laughably) called anti social behaviour since decriminalisation. Quite the opposite in fact, if they can do it why can't we?
There'll always be those who want to seek oblivion and will do anything to attain that goal but I walked through a park yesterday with my grandson at 10 AM there was a bunch of about 15 alcoholics already **** faced. Alcohol is completely legal.

You are on the slippery slope people would view drug dealing as the same as selling counterfeit cigarettes and is merely a tax swindle rather than the crime that it is

 

[trev]

Trevor this is over a bloody quote . I can understand if I said I would start Monday and then not turn up but a quote unbelievable

So some ----er is giving your family a hard time over A QUOTE!
PS I'm letting an obvious oversight go unchallenged
Your landline provider is obliged to offer a service where incoming calls are intercepted. They ask who they are and what they want then ring you to see if you want to speak to them.
Use it!

 

[dingledong]

No on the radio today was an ex druggy who smoked etc etc for about 10 years and a heroin addict for
15 years . Easier to get drugs more people will take them
Government drugs give you a 100% high, illegAl drugs give you a 110% high so I will still go illegal

 

[trev]

You are on the slippery slope people would view drug dealing as the same as selling counterfeit cigarettes and is merely a tax swindle rather than the crime that it is

But the drug dealing is already in the hands of criminals. Are you ok with EIGHT THOUSAND MILLION POUNDS going into crook's pockets?

 

[dingledong]

Having spoken to a very high up police man if the government did what they do in the states as in the government gets a % of the money confiscated from the dealer and the police also get a % of the proceeds for equipment etc etc then more dealers would be caught

 

[rapparee]

If it were legal there would be less of the criminal element because the government is going to be getting the take from it not dealer A who is hated by dealer B because he's got a bigger slice of the pie.
I'll ask you about the Portugal thing as well.
No one is coming up with anything worthwhile to say about that. That's why I'm banging on about it.
PS, I have but not for a very long time but that is not why I started this.

Look at the explosion in the use of illegal highs like mephedrone, the public are that stupid they would believe if a sinstance is legalised then it is not harmful.

 

[trev]

Having spoken to a very high up police man if the government did what they do in the states as in the government gets a % of the money confiscated from the dealer and the police also get a % of the proceeds for equipment etc etc then more dealers would be caught

That already happens mate. It's called something like The Proceeds Of Crime Act. On conviction criminals can have all their assets siezed, their houses, cars, bank accounts etc.

 

[Adam W]

I worked in Portugal for 6 months or so just after drugs had been legalised, and speaking to the Portuguese people who I worked with, drug use of any kind was severely frowned upon - if someone said they had smoked a reefer they may as well have said they'd injected Heroin.
Similarly with the Dutch - I've spoken to people from Holland, even from Amsterdam, and they've told me it's only 'losers' who smoke dope; most of the Dutch are against drugs of any kind.

 

[trev]

Look at the explosion in the use of illegal highs like mephedrone, the public are that stupid they would believe if a sinstance is legalised then it is not harmful.

Alcohol and tobacco are legal. Do you believe those substances are not harmful?
Possession of solvent based glue and paint is not a criminal offence. Do you believe those substances are not harmful?

 

[dingledong]

20 years ago I would feel sorry for a druggie as not ma.y people knew how addictive it was but nowadays everybody knows it's addictive so if you take It you have to be thick. If you take it and your hooked then what am I supposed to do about it

 

[trev]

As with most things, education is the key.

 

[Adam W]

I appreciate alcohol and nicotine are also drugs.

 

[rapparee]

I worked in Portugal for 6 months or so just after drugs had been legalised, and speaking to the Portuguese people who I worked with, drug use of any kind was severely frowned upon - if someone said they had smoked a reefer they may as well have said they'd injected Heroin.
Similarly with the Dutch - I've spoken to people from Holland, even from Amsterdam, and they've told me it's only 'losers' who smoke dope; most of the Dutch are against drugs of any kind.

That pretty much goes with the whole european dignity and control, to legalise drugs to the irish would be a free for all, and the brits are cut from the same cloth when it comes to self control

 

[trev]

20 years ago I would feel sorry for a druggie as not ma.y people knew how addictive it was but nowadays everybody knows it's addictive so if you take It you have to be thick. If you take it and your hooked then what am I supposed to do about it

You're not supposed to do anything about it but at present that person's addiction is financing other criminality. Would it not be better to use the revenue from it for good?
Education programmes which would stop people wanting to try it. Nurses, doctors, teachers, police officers etc etc.

 

[trev]

That pretty much goes with the whole european dignity and control, to legalise drugs to the irish would be a free for all, and the brits are cut from the same cloth when it comes to self control

So are you saying we need a nanny state to look after us all?

 

[rapparee]

Alcohol and tobacco are legal. Do you believe those substances are not harmful?
Possession of solvent based glue and paint is not a criminal offence. Do you believe those substances are not harmful?

Glue and paint have legitimate uses, what good are a few lines

 

[rapparee]

So are you saying we need a nanny state to look after us all?

Yes a state has a duty to look after it's citizens even if the problem is the citizens themselves

 

[Adam W]

That pretty much goes with the whole european dignity and control, to legalise drugs to the irish would be a free for all, and the brits are cut from the same cloth when it comes to self control

Exactly, that's why the 24 hour drinking laws haven't worked - we have more of a Scandinavian drinking culture than a European one - at the weekend people go out to get pished, not to have a couple of glasses of wine after their paella.

 

[ferg]

I disagree with legalising all drugs on date X.

Legalising one or two and then using the taxation from them to tackle the social problems which cause the need for people to seek oblivion.

Then a rolling program of the same for all the others.

That way when a new rather nasty legal or illegal drug comes on the market there are safer alternatives.

We will have invested the astronomical amounts of money saved from the war on drugs on solving some of the social problems we have in this country.

If Drugs are illegal and a non criminal person takes drugs and gets caught they are now a criminal.
So someone with a previously unblemished record harmed nobody else and is now a criminal unable to find work in certain fields.

Putting people in prison for hard drug use destroys their lives even further and only promotes further hard drug use.

If my missus was walking home at night I'd far rather she bumped into 6 guys giggling and on the way to the shop for munchies than 6 guys ****ed up.

 

[rapparee]

I disagree with legalising all drugs on date X.

Legalising one or two and then using the taxation from them to tackle the social problems which cause the need for people to seek oblivion.

Then a rolling program of the same for all the others.

That way when a new rather nasty legal or illegal drug comes on the market there are safer alternatives.

We will have invested the astronomical amounts of money saved from the war on drugs on solving some of the social problems we have in this country.

If Drugs are illegal and a non criminal person takes drugs and gets caught they are now a criminal.
So someone with a previously unblemished record harmed nobody else and is now a criminal unable to find work in certain fields.

Putting people in prison for hard drug use destroys their lives even further and only promotes further hard drug use.

If my missus was walking home at night I'd far rather she bumped into 6 guys giggling and on the way to the shop for munchies than 6 guys ****ed up.

What about coked up

 

[shanky887614]

I disagree with legalising all drugs on date X.

Legalising one or two and then using the taxation from them to tackle the social problems which cause the need for people to seek oblivion.

Then a rolling program of the same for all the others.

That way when a new rather nasty legal or illegal drug comes on the market there are safer alternatives.

We will have invested the astronomical amounts of money saved from the war on drugs on solving some of the social problems we have in this country.

If Drugs are illegal and a non criminal person takes drugs and gets caught they are now a criminal.
So someone with a previously unblemished record harmed nobody else and is now a criminal unable to find work in certain fields.

Putting people in prison for hard drug use destroys their lives even further and only promotes further hard drug use.

If my missus was walking home at night I'd far rather she bumped into 6 guys giggling and on the way to the shop for munchies than 6 guys ****ed up.

thats the point though isnt it, there are certain class c drugs which are not that bad.

look at america with canabis people are not dropping dead from it.

infact it would do a lot of people some good to destress occasionally after work

 

[trev]

Glue and paint have legitimate uses, what good are a few lines

I agree, I don't see the point of a line of coke. Round our way it's £50 a gramme, a guy can make a shed load of money flogging it in the town centre of a weekend. If it were available in the same way as alcohol is and there was revenue going into the public purse from it is that not a good thing?
The people buying it have no idea what it's mixed with and that can cause all sorts of problems for the NHS to pick up. If it's cut with Harpic it can be very dangerous, if it's cut with glucose it's less so.
Glue and paint have legitimate uses, yes. So do lots of currently illegal drugs, marijuana has been proven to be beneficial to people suffering from MS but it's illegal, it cannot even be prescribed by a doctor.

 

[ferg]

What about coked up

I'd be ok with it in moderation and not mixed with alcohol TBH

 

[Adam W]

I'd be ok with it in moderation and not mixed with alcohol TBH

How would you moderate/police that?

 

[trev]

Here's a scenario for you all.
A 17 year old is caught with a bit of cannabis resin in his pocket and gets a criminal record for it. She lives a completely blameless life for the next 25 years and becomes a totally different person from the one she was at 17.
At 42 years old she applies for a job and it crawls out of the woodwork and prevents her getting it. A job that she has been working towards for a few years and is amply qualified to do to a high standard.
Is that justice?

 

[ferg]

How would you moderate/police that?

That was in reference to a particular scenario.

 

[ferg]

Here's a scenario for you all.
A 17 year old is caught with a bit of cannabis resin in his pocket and gets a criminal record for it. She lives a completely blameless life for the next 25 years and becomes a totally different person from the one she was at 17.
At 42 years old she applies for a job and it crawls out of the woodwork and prevents her getting it. A job that she has been working towards for a few years and is amply qualified to do to a high standard.
Is that justice?

I think it's appalling and TBF said record would indicate the charge in England.

In Scotland it would just be listed as a drugs charge.

 

[trev]

I think it's appalling and TBF said record would indicate the charge in England.

In Scotland it would just be listed as a drugs charge.

And in both places a stupid mistake made at 17 could preclude her from working at a job at 42 when she's a totally different person.

 

[dingledong]

She/he would be under 18 so any conviction would not be shown in any record that any one can see
But I went to court once and a man was a bus conductor who had let his ma t e travel free and got caught . If you looked at his criminal record it would show employed embezzlement with no amount. The actual amount was 20p

 

[ferg]

If I had been caught doing what I did at that age and for a while afterwards I would not have had the opportunity to change lives in the social care sector.

I'm not suggesting I was some kind of super carer, but I did make a small difference to some peoples lives.

Some of the best social carers I know are great at their jobs and had their pasts been a matter of record they would be stacking shelves in the supermarket.

Which actually begs the question......

Given that use of recreational drugs is so widespread and has been since their discovery why do we continue to punish the few that are caught??

 

[amckay]

Trev, you prob already know about this but did you know Portugal legalised ALL drugs about 10years ago? Their country is far far better off now!

 

[trev]

She/he would be under 18 so any conviction would not be shown in any record that any one can see

Some offences stay with you all your life, drugs convictions are one example.
At 18 I was in a nightclub, I bumped into a guy who I was at college with and stood talking. He got the beers in, we finished them then I got them in. It turned out he was 3 weeks short of his 18th birthday, I got a date in court and was fined £15.
That showed up on an enhanced DBS check 6 months ago. Strange, the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act says that 2 years after the conviction it no longer shows up.

 

[trev]

Trev, you prob already know about this but did you know Portugal legalised ALL drugs about 10years ago? Their country is far far better off now!

Yes I do mate but it wasn't all that long ago. that's why I've been holding them up as an example.
Addictions-down
Hospitalisations-down
Treatment costs-down
Hepatitis infections-down
HIV infections-down
Drug related crime-down
Organised crime-down
Etc
Etc
What's not to like?

 

[ferg]

Some offences stay with you all your life, drugs convictions are one example.
At 18 I was in a nightclub, I bumped into a guy who I was at college with and stood talking. He got the beers in, we finished them then I got them in. It turned out he was 3 weeks short of his 18th birthday, I got a date in court and was fined £15.
That showed up on an enhanced DBS check 6 months ago. Strange, the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act says that 2 years after the conviction it no longer shows up.

Crikey whatever happened to paid your debt to society...

 

[trev]

Crikey whatever happened to paid your debt to society...

It was a bloody expensive round in 1980 mate. Probably £1 a pint in a club + the £15 fine.
I wouldn't care so much but the band that were on were terrible that night