Illuminated Rocker Switch Conundrum !?!

[Tynan2020]

Hi there . . . .

First up I'd just like to say I'm a long time forum member, but have not logged in for ages (a couple of years at least) and my account seems to have disappeared, had to register again. Not sure what happened to my account, but just to say that I am an amateur at this stuff, I know enough to not kill myself : ) which is why I come here for advice from people who've kept themselves alive while dealing with 240v every day !

I've got an illuminated rocker switch (see image below) - SPST, with three terminals . . .

. . . I was hoping to wire it up so that it lit up when switched on.

I am using it to connect a simple live and neutral wire connection (see excellent illustration below) this is all taking place inside an audio effects unit, the switch simply needs to connect the live to the neutral to turn the unit on - the live wire is carrying 240v (well my multimeter says 244v, but I assume that's 240v) . . .

Here's my issue, depending on which terminals I use, I can get the switch to turn the built in light on and off . . . or turn the power to the unit on and off (connect live and neutral) . . . but not both at the same time . . . . connecting live to the centre terminal and neutral to one of the outside terminals lights up the switch (but doesn't power the unit), connecting live to the centre terminal again and neutral to the opposite outside terminal powers up the unit . . . but no light.

Is there a clever wiring trick known to seasoned electricians to have this type of switch turn the power on (connect live and neutral) while at the same time turning the light on ?

Any input really appreciated (and yes, before you ask, you can use my wire illustration for your own posts).

Lee.

 

[DPG]

No, won't work like that unfortunately. As I say, it's possible, but not with just 2 wires.

 

[Tynan2020]

No, won't work like that unfortunately. As I say, it's possible, but not with just 2 wires.

Ok, no problem, at least I've learned a couple of things today.

I'm going to do some research / study on how these illuminated switches work as I really am out of my depth, I will come back stronger and better and, in time, grow to be one of Europe's most powerful sources of live and neutral wire illustrations.

Cheers for the input from both you and westward10 !

Appreciated


Lee

 

[DPG]

If you're still in doubt about how the switch/neon works, have a Google and you should be able to find a diagram or example. It will make sense when you see it as a picture.

 

[Tynan2020]

If you're still in doubt about how the switch/neon works, have a Google and you should be able to find a diagram or example. It will make sense when you see it as a picture.

Will do

Cheers.

 

[telectrix]

what i can't grasp from the pictures in post#15 is that the socket on the PCB appears to be a L and N input, so connecting a switch across then will do nothing.

 

[Moley]

what i can't grasp from the pictures in post#15 is that the socket on the PCB appears to be a L and N input, so connecting a switch across then will do nothing.

It looks to me like a standard iec plug into the back of the unit. The live then goes to the plug that the OP has attached the brown and blue wires to, the blue being the switched feed for the unit. By connecting the brown and blue to the switch connections the blue (should be sleeved brown) become live, makes the circuit and turns the unit on. When he's connecting the neon side of the switch the live supplies the live(!) and the circuit forms the return path. The unit won't turn on as the neon won't pass enough to power the circuitry. As a well know meerkat would say, simples

 

[telectrix]

ahh so the photo shows the plug and socket for the switch... then all he needs to do is find a neutral inside the unit and link it to the 3rd terminal of the switch. obviously having determined which terminal is which on the switch.

 

[Moley]

Yes but without a meter to test for neutral and not knowing the OPs soldering ability it's not something I would recommend he does.

 

[DPG]

ahh so the photo shows the plug and socket for the switch... then all he needs to do is find a neutral inside the unit and link it to the 3rd terminal of the switch. obviously having determined which terminal is which on the switch.

That's what I said!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I can't believe how long this went round and round in circles. If joining the brown and blue wires turns the unit on, the blue is not a neutral, it's the switched line as per Moley above (although, as it is inside equipment where BS7671 does not apply, I wouldn't expect it to be sleeved brown).

I don't think it has been said explicity but it looks like the OP is replacing a non-illuminated switch (for which the line and switched line are present at the connector on the PCB) with an illuminated one (which also needs a neutral that is not present). To power the neon, as per Telectrix, a neutral needs to be got (perhaps from the terminals of the IEC inlet, where they project through the PCB).

The equipment is being modified and its safety approvals rendered void, therefore the modifier takes on significant responsibility for safety and compliance. Whatever happens, it must be made practically safe, and an internet forum cannot possibly convey all the details required to guarantee that. I would respectfully suggest that doing modifications to mains-powered equipment by guesswork and experiment, without first being acquainted with the circuit and parts one is attempting to wire up, is not a good idea.

 

[ipf]

Agree about the circling. The neon is getting a return via the pcb.

 

[DPG]

I can't believe how long this went round and round in circles. If joining the brown and blue wires turns the unit on, the blue is not a neutral, it's the switched line as per Moley above (although, as it is inside equipment where BS7671 does not apply, I wouldn't expect it to be sleeved brown).

I don't think it has been said explicity but it looks like the OP is replacing a non-illuminated switch (for which the line and switched line are present at the connector on the PCB) with an illuminated one (which also needs a neutral that is not present). To power the neon, as per Telectrix, a neutral needs to be got (perhaps from the terminals of the IEC inlet, where they project through the PCB).

The equipment is being modified and its safety approvals rendered void, therefore the modifier takes on significant responsibility for safety and compliance. Whatever happens, it must be made practically safe, and an internet forum cannot possibly convey all the details required to guarantee that. I would respectfully suggest that doing modifications to mains-powered equipment by guesswork and experiment, without first being acquainted with the circuit and parts one is attempting to wire up, is not a good idea.

Think I pretty much covered it in posts 5 and 10 though.

 

[telectrix]

Agree about the circling. The neon is getting a return via the pcb.

was just about to say "who's buying?" then reread you said pcb, not pub.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Think I pretty much covered it in posts 5 and 10 though.

You did, but not everyone noticed.

 

[marconi]

Tynan2020: You refer to a Zip Switch B116 C2G SPST which is this one:

https://static.rapidonline.com/pdf/519932_v1.pdf

According to this datasheet you connect:

Line in to the outer terminal numbered 2.

Lin out to the inner terminal numbered 1

Neutral to outer terminal numbered 3

There is a diagram in the spec half way down on the left hand side.