Immersion Water heating problem - help and advise wanted!!

[Benjamano]

Hello, I am hoping that I have found the right place for help. I have for months had an issue with my water heating. Lived in the property for over 5 years without any prob's until this year, it is a electrical system with a single rate meter (according to my supplier) we also have storage heaters. We have a fused spur in the kitchen along with a boost, I have noticed that the spur comes on between 1am and 8am everyday however I get no hot water unless we use the boost in which case its red hot. We have to do this every day and it's costing a fortune (£144 a month) 3 bed maisonette!

I've had both plumbers and electricians out, internal electrics have been tested. Main fuse is fine, both immersions are working, tank was nearly new when we moved in. Plus the boost works so the water does heat up. We were told to contact the supplier as it might be a timer issue. We don't have a timer for the water and the supplier advised that it is a single rate meter and the electic is on all the time. So how does the fused spur know when to come on and when it does why does it not heat the water???

Uber confused and stressed to bits... I have a young family and need this sorting for Winter coming. Any help and advise would be amazing... cheers Ben

 

[telectrix]

i have found a couple of times that the terminals inside the programmer have burnt out. so that it will only work when you activate the boost. that could be the problem.

 

[Rappid]

Is the boost heating element combined with the normal heating element or do you have 2 seperate elements on the tank?
Is the heating element on top of the tank or on the side?

 

[Benjamano]

Thanks for the quick replies,
We don't have a programmer or a timer for the water heating so that's not the issue.
As far as the elements go, there are two separate immersions. One at the bottom of the tank and one about half way. Electrician tested both and said they were fine. Not sure which one is which tho.

 

[Rappid]

The bottom is the heating element and the one in the middle is for the boost.
You said it has been tested, I would personally check again for my own peace of mind.
If you are electrically competant, disconect the supply to the elements and do a continunity test of both elements and they should be roughly the same.

 

[Rappid]

It could be the thermostat on each element, you could try changing them over.

 

[Benjamano]

ok so maybe the guy that came missed something? I wish I was handy with electric, I am in no way household trained. My father in law maybe able to help so I can ask him or get another sparky out. Don't want to pay for another negative check. Thanks for the advise. If you can think of anything else let me know, I will tell you if you are right. Let's hope you are and if you are why didnt the first guy see that.

 

[telectrix]

if you post your location, a member of this forum may be close to you.

 

[Des 56]

ok so maybe the guy that came missed something? I wish I was handy with electric, I am in no way household trained. My father in law maybe able to help so I can ask him or get another sparky out. Don't want to pay for another negative check. Thanks for the advise. If you can think of anything else let me know, I will tell you if you are right. Let's hope you are and if you are why didnt the first guy see that.

Its like all walks of life
Incompetents are present in this trade, perhaps more than most,its knowing how to seperate the incompetent and inexperienced from the available pool plying the trade unfortunately

 

[Richard Burns]

The electrician may have just tested continuity on the immersions, because if he said they were OK and had done an operational test then they would work if powered. Continuity would check the element is not broken but would not necessarily check the thermostat. It is possible that, as Rapid has said the lower thermostat is not working; the overheat trip may have tripped if the water is red hot with the boost. If you switch off the power and remove the cover of the lower immersion there should be a small button,hopefully labelled reset, that you can push to let it start again, but this does not determine why it went in the first place.
By the way you should be able to turn down the thermostat on the mid level immersion (the boost) very easily by switching the power off and removing the immersion cover and rotating the dial to a lower temperature.
If you are at all unsure about doing any of this then DO NOT DO IT, always be safe.

 

[Engineer54]

we also have storage heaters. We have a fused spur in the kitchen along with a boost, I have noticed that the spur comes on between 1am and 8am everyday however I get no hot water unless we use the boost in which case its red hot. We have to do this every day and it's costing a fortune (£144 a month) 3 bed maisonette!

. We don't have a timer for the water and the supplier advised that it is a single rate meter and the electic is on all the time. So how does the fused spur know when to come on and when it does why does it not heat the water???

This situation doesn't make any sense at all, unless your water heating is on the same timer as your storage heaters ......If you have one?? ...lol!! The boost is fed separately from the normal water heating electrical source. ie by-passes the timer settings. A timer is the only way your water heating would come on between 1am and 8am, which if is the same as your electric heaters, would as i say, mean that your water heating is being fed/timer via that the same timer. Worth checking at the very least i think!!!

 

[oldtimer]

Sounds like you have or had an eco 7 type system if you have storage heaters then you may have 2 fuseboards the standard setup would be 2 electric meters 1 off peak the other normal 24 hour rate the eco 7 system has one meter that switches to off peak rates between a certain time depending on how they do it ie via a timeclock or a teleswitch ie a signal embedded in Radio 4s wavelength that allows them to switch your off peak period on/off so you have 2 immersion heaters yes the one at the bottom is off peak the one at the top is normal supply or boost now the boost is working so for now forget it the bottom immersion should be heating the tank up overnight and you say it does not you have checked that all fuses or circuit breakers are ok yes so next thing can you take a picture of your fuseboard setup I cannot understand how you have storage heaters on a one tarrif meter also check your bills to see if you have 2 rates of charge on it

 

[Benjamano]

That is some real quality advise, you guys rock! I will not be doing anything with it however I have a good friend who is a plumber and would be more than happy to help out, great advise on turning down the output on the thermo, that will save some juice. I think im gonna get them switched around first so I can definatly illiminate if it is the bottom one, then again it could be both in which case I shall get someone to do that test. Top one!
Yes it would be a shame if this has been missed, my wife said the guy was a bit hesitant when looking.

 

[Benjamano]

Sounds like you have or had an eco 7 type system if you have storage heaters then you may have 2 fuseboards the standard setup would be 2 electric meters 1 off peak the other normal 24 hour rate the eco 7 system has one meter that switches to off peak rates between a certain time depending on how they do it ie via a timeclock or a teleswitch ie a signal embedded in Radio 4s wavelength that allows them to switch your off peak period on/off so you have 2 immersion heaters yes the one at the bottom is off peak the one at the top is normal supply or boost now the boost is working so for now forget it the bottom immersion should be heating the tank up overnight and you say it does not you have checked that all fuses or circuit breakers are ok yes so next thing can you take a picture of your fuseboard setup I cannot understand how you have storage heaters on a one tarrif meter also check your bills to see if you have 2 rates of charge on it

Yes we have two readings on the meter yes our supplier told me that it is only a single rate meter and will be on all the time. Storage heaters work fine apart from one which has been disconnected. Like I say I am lost as to where a timer would be, the electrician and my plumber mate cannot fine one either, our neighbours are the same. My postcode is NE5 4DF,

 

[Engineer54]

Yes we have two readings on the meter yes our supplier told me that it is only a single rate meter and will be on all the time. Storage heaters work fine apart from one which has been disconnected. Like I say I am lost as to where a timer would be, the electrician and my plumber mate cannot fine one either, our neighbours are the same. My postcode is NE5 4DF,

Can you post a few photo's of your meter and surrounding area, also your immersion heater, showing the two heater elements placements and maybe the switch and boost switch too. If as you say, the immersion switch only becomes live between 1 am and 8 am then somewhere in your installation there will be a timer. Maybe you have a timer module in your breaker box, we won't know unless we can see what you have there. As they say a photo is worth a thousand words ....lol!!!