Induction hob correct install

[Burnmenot]

I’ve been looking for the right answer and just can’t seem to find it.
I had an induction hob installed by a certified electrician, and there are no apparent problems so far, however, it is installed on the CU, RCD and upstream with a RCCB with no MCB,
I’m just not 100% sure if it’s the safest way to install it, I would personally think that would be safer on an RCBO or on a MCB, I’m not worried about overloading as it’s on a 10mm2 cable, 40a RCCB and the unit draws a max of 25Amp, I worry more about the fact that the RCCB will not protect on short circuit.
I appreciate any feedback or comments.
Thanks

 

[Burnmenot]

Sure, but as there is no cable identification who knows what any of the units are protecting, only way to be sure is to switch one off and see if the hob still works.

I do

 

[Burnmenot]

OP, what made you look at how the electrician had wired the cooker into the consumer unit?

Did you get an installation cert?

And yes, fundamentally every circuit needs over current protection of some sort.

my interest and curiosity for electricity and the safety of my home and family, do that suffice?
no cert provided..... cowboy, I called many snags on the electrician alone... I'll spare you the details, just to say the cover for the connection under the hob was found on a drawer... then I saw the wires exposed...

 

[Burnmenot]

Thank you all for your comments, very much appreciate that you took your time to give your opinion on what seems to be a hot mess of a CU, I kind of knew that, the whole house was built on a weekend during the boom in Ireland so no surprise there. I just want to focus on having the correct protection, for now, aesthetics is not my main concern right now.
What I take from all your comments is that the RCCB where the Induction hob is should be an RCBO, and that the current RCCB does not provide enough protection to the hob or the circuit and it could be an electrical hazard?

 

[Vortigern]

On the face of what is presented above I would say the OCP is not achieved with the installation method used. What might be the consequences of this? In terms of overload it is not a problem as it is a fixed resistive load and can only achieve a fixed amount of load. In the event of a short circuit where the load may well exceed the CCC of the cable due to the fault current exceeding by many multiples the CCC of the cable. Therefore the cable may melt/explode causing danger of fire. It would then be prudent and indeed required to arrange the appropriate protection for the cable. Ensuring the operative engaged is properly qualified to undertake such work. The chance of a short circuit while being quite remote is nevertheless important to have remedied.

 

[Burnmenot]

On the face of what is presented above I would say the OCP is not achieved with the installation method used. What might be the consequences of this? In terms of overload it is not a problem as it is a fixed resistive load and can only achieve a fixed amount of load. In the event of a short circuit where the load may well exceed the CCC of the cable due to the fault current exceeding by many multiples the CCC of the cable. Therefore the cable may melt/explode causing danger of fire. It would then be prudent and indeed required to arrange the appropriate protection for the cable. Ensuring the operative engaged is properly qualified to undertake such work. The chance of a short circuit while being quite remote is nevertheless important to have remedied.

thank you very much for your comments and advice, much appreciated.
I've decided to keep the RCCB turned off while not in use just in case.
I will make sure a reputable certified electrician does the job... possibly replacing the whole CU and new more modern type B breakers with 6ka capacity class3, instead of 3ka, although here in Ireland that it's extremely hard! not to say almost an impossible quest!

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you are going to change the whole CU then consider an all Type A RCBO board.

 

[Burnmenot]

If you are going to change the whole CU then consider an all Type A RCBO board.

Thank you, I'll consider that, in the main time if my electrician suggests adding an MCB to the RCCB instead of replacing it with an RCBO, where should the electrician position the MCB, before the RCCB or after connected to the load?
thanks

 

[Mike Johnson]

The MCB should be connected to the load first.

 

[Dartlec]

Thank you, I'll consider that, in the main time if my electrician suggests adding an MCB to the RCCB instead of replacing it with an RCBO, where should the electrician position the MCB, before the RCCB or after connected to the load?
thanks

Ideally between the RCD and the load - as is the case with the lower Hager RCD. That way the MCB protects the RCD against the effects of a short circuit (Though in this case with one load it may not make much practical difference.)

In either case it should really be a short term solution until you can get the whole installation looked at. Some of the Hager stuff looks in good condition and is still 'current' so it may be possible to reuse them, perhaps in a new enclosure depending on the state of the existing one, add some Hager Type A RCBOs on relevant circuits and end up with a much better installation without massive time or cost involved.

 

[Burnmenot]

The MCB should be connected to the load first.

Thanks, that's what I thought, then I came across this article, and made me very confused...
Proper RCCB connection Diagram with MCB. - https://www.etechnog.com/2018/12/rccb-connection-diagram.html

 

[nicebutdim]

Would be interesting if @LastManOnline or @Risteard could chime in on this to clarify what is (and more importantly, what is not) acceptable in IE.

I can undersand the original installation being hurried, but can't see it having included three additional devices, from two other manufacturers.

Hopefully an REC can clear up what courses of action might be considered acceptable to remedy the situation.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Thanks, that's what I thought, then I came across this article, and made me very confused...
Proper RCCB connection Diagram with MCB. - https://www.etechnog.com/2018/12/rccb-connection-diagram.html

View attachment 83863

In that example the RCCB is not being protected from a short circuit from the load, the other way around the RCCB would not be protected from a short circuit of the cables between it and the energy meter, where is the most likely short circuit going to happen, opinions anyone? easiest solution is to install an RCBO.

 

[Risteard]

Would be interesting if @LastManOnline or @Risteard could chime in on this to clarify what is (and more importantly, what is not) acceptable in IE.

I can undersand the original installation being hurried, but can't see it having included three additional devices, from two other manufacturers.

Hopefully an REC can clear up what courses of action might be considered acceptable to remedy the situation.

It is unusual for cooker circuits to have RCD protection in the south of Ireland. I would expect it to be fed from an MCB only, but certainly an RCBO or RCCB and MCB is allowable.

Not having overcurrent protection is, of course, completely prohibited.

Work on the distribution board cannot just be done by a qualified Electrician - they must be a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC), i.e. a member of RECI (aka Safe Electric). Can the OP confirm whether this was the case? If so, report it to RECI. If not, then it could be reported as illegal works.

A new circuit comes under Controlled Works No. 3 and requires a Completion Certificate. For an existing installation this will be a Completion Certificate for Existing Installations (Cert No. 3). A Cert No. 3 requires a Test Record Sheet to be supplied with it. (Other certs/reports do not currently, e.g. PIR, Cert No. 1 or Cert No. 2 - although with a PIR it's pretty much pushed by RECI that a TRS should be provided.)

A copy of Cert No. 3 and the accompanying TRS (or sheets plural with multiple DBs) is also required to be sent to RECI, so they should have a record of the works.

 

[pc1966]

I was going to ask if that is a Neozed fuse bottom-right which appears to feed a 63A MCB. And ideas why?

 

[Burnmenot]

It is unusual for cooker circuits to have RCD protection in the south of Ireland. I would expect it to be fed from an MCB only, but certainly an RCBO or RCCB and MCB is allowable.

Not having overcurrent protection is, of course, completely prohibited.

Work on the distribution board cannot just be done by a qualified Electrician - they must be a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC), i.e. a member of RECI (aka Safe Electric). Can the OP confirm whether this was the case? If so, report it to RECI. If not, then it could be reported as illegal works.

A new circuit comes under Controlled Works No. 3 and requires a Completion Certificate. For an existing installation this will be a Completion Certificate for Existing Installations (Cert No. 3). A Cert No. 3 requires a Test Record Sheet to be supplied with it. (Other certs/reports do not currently, e.g. PIR, Cert No. 1 or Cert No. 2 - although with a PIR it's pretty much pushed by RECI that a TRS should be provided.)

A copy of Cert No. 3 and the accompanying TRS (or sheets plural with multiple DBs) is also required to be sent to RECI, so they should have a record of the works.

Thanks for your comments, to be honest at this point I'm not sure he was registered RECI or even qualified, he came with another bunch of cowboys that did our kitchen, and never provided any certs of completion or showered any RECI number what so ever, wanted little trouble and quick money, in and out! I guess three no surprise there... so the OP can't confirm any of the above, I will certainly contact RECI to check whether they have a record of the works and perhaps I can track the guy down to remedy this mess.

Thanks !