insurance jobs doing us out of work

[martysparky]

Insurance jobs are cutting out sparks

E.g. A carpenter refits a kitchen after a fire and replaces fire damaged cable etc. but when removes old units finds a mass of botch electrics because the old kitchen was a DIY job. Insurance wont pay any more to get a spark in as the agreement for the renovation has already been made. In this situation with fire damage I think a PIR or an equal inspection should defo be compulsory.

Of course a carpenter was called by the insurance to refit the kitchen and didn't include a total rewire of kitchen to get the work as PIR is not compulsory and only for change of tenancy or every 10 years this is bound to happen. There could well be another fire as the replacement fire damaged cable was just a replacement of botch DIY electrics.

Surely the insurance company should call an electrician to fact find the safety of the installation.

Why is this happening? We are losing work and other trades are getting more work because of things like this..

 

[DurhamSparky]

Re: compulsory inspections???

welcome to the world of DEFINED SCOPE PART P........ plumbers, kitchen fitters, tilers, chimpanzees and Donkeys can get there hands on OUR electrical work but if we were to say offer to fit a kitchen the customer would say NO im getting a proper joiner in

 

[martysparky]

Re: compulsory inspections???

lol, I know, apparently and supposed non notifiable like for like that a Die why'er can apparently do!

How would a like for like replacement be known as part of the fixed installation design and known to be a Die Why botch for someone who has no training in the requirements.

Part P needs to grab the insurance companies and give them a shock to stop them invalidating there customers policies and give us work.

 

[sbrown2]

Am I misunderstanding the replies here! I would not go out and claim to being a kitchen fitter even though I have now fitted three or four kitchens in my own properties and done any plumbing, tiling, plastering etc. I am confident I have completed these to a high standard. The point I am trying to make is that potentially all of you on this thread, and others, would appear to have at least these skills and more. Why are you not turning this around and saying I fit kitchens and organising the jobs. There is only one way of fighting the defined scope scourge and that appears to be entering the other trades.
I am deeemed not Gas Safe and yet for years I have been deemed competent to fault find on large gas ovens in factories. Electricians used to be deemed one of the brighter of the trades but to prove this we have to evolve, in my mind, to the word "Maintenance" maybe with property in front.
I haven't started out in the self employed world yet, but reading this forum tells me being an electrician alone is not the path to a good living, especially in the domestic market.

Anyway, regards

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Unfortunatley the situation has arisen where we need to wait for someone to be killed by the incompetance of a 'domestic installer' trained person for things to change.


Only when the questionability of someones competance comes to play will things get better.

 

[mogga]

APRT P Doesnt govern of police ANYTHING its a load of tosh mr DieY will still do stuff as will mr Bodge n scarper and his M8 Dosh n run How many people have been prosecuted for doing notifable work without notifying or being a scam member
BnQ will still sell unless gov does a restriction its over 18 for knifes,solvents ciggies beer even some obscure things can be included but Tom Dickward Harry can go and potentioaly leave a leathal mistake that may not be inediatly apparent but in a few years amy come to the surface

 

[sbrown2]

Widdler, I don't think that wil change a thing. As the post after has demonstrated. We are just sparkies. Understand that the main men of construction(or the builders or doers!!!) have flexed their muscles. One death will not change a thing, or maybe not!. True electricians need to look at all of their skills and utilise them to stay ahead of the oversaturated or adjusting market, to make a living.

Peace to All

 

[gunner]

it always comes down to the client.they want the cheapest job done and do not consider safety.as long as i can sleep upstairs at night with no worry of whats under the floorboards why waste time worrying over something we cant influence.as for diversifying i think that is where the problem started.when i worked in london driving in up the a1 each morning i used to smile at the one man bands in there vans with all the things that they could do on the side of there vans which was clearly impossible but maybe not illegal.a friend who recently came to work at my company had been on a large contract in north london sparking and said the client was using a lot of eastern european labour for cheapness.when i asked who was doing the eic certs you can imagine the answer.

 

[sbrown2]

So the point being is???!!!! Do I need certification for fitting the kitchen units?

What I see is people with less intellectual ability to understand the dangers of electricity and more and more people who need, and want, to make more money. I saw a very interesting post against a electrician that stated " if a tile is not put up correctly and falls down and hits somebody on the head what are the consequences". The point being, tiling will never be entirely regulated like electrical engineering and thus their wont be loads and loads of courses and so it will be a a pure trade.

Anyway, regards

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Widdler, I don't think that wil change a thing. As the post after has demonstrated. We are just sparkies. Understand that the main men of construction(or the builders or doers!!!) have flexed their muscles. One death will not change a thing, or maybe not!. True electricians need to look at all of their skills and utilise them to stay ahead of the oversaturated or adjusting market, to make a living.

Peace to All

Do you actually know what brought part P on to start with?

After a couple more events where proff of inompetance is occurent,changes will be made. They have to. There are too many revolving door sparkies out there now..

 

[martysparky]

Unfortunatley the situation has arisen where we need to wait for someone to be killed by the incompetance of a 'domestic installer' trained person for things to change.


Only when the questionability of someones competance comes to play will things get better.

thats not what is in question though.

its the non notifiable work that is replaced by a non trained person as like for like but has really replaced Mr Die why's botch.

This is why I think there should be a compulsory call to an electrician from the insurance company when a premises has had fire damage not simply put it all in the hands of a carpenter / kitchen fitter.

How would a carpenter know if he has not trained in electrics.

Insurance companies would be quick enough to invalidate a claim if the electrics are not compliant and are also encouraging that very thing.

Are we accepting this????????????

 

[martysparky]

Am I misunderstanding the replies here! I would not go out and claim to being a kitchen fitter even though I have now fitted three or four kitchens in my own properties and done any plumbing, tiling, plastering etc. I am confident I have completed these to a high standard. The point I am trying to make is that potentially all of you on this thread, and others, would appear to have at least these skills and more. Why are you not turning this around and saying I fit kitchens and organising the jobs. There is only one way of fighting the defined scope scourge and that appears to be entering the other trades.
/QUOTE]


mate,,, I too am pretty handy with the other trades and have peoples who I work with when not doing electrical.

This is exactly why this thread was stared because its annoying being electrically trained etc on a job with no budget for electrics and thus ignored and left in a often non compliant state with the safety of the installation unkown untested but obviously botch.

 

[sbrown2]

My question is how will this be stopped? How will the electrician who is solely a skilled and competent electrician be called upon to assess the faults in these claims? How will we not be at the mercy of carpenters, builders etc for these types of work?

Regards

 

[RexT]

Hi guys,


I guess it all boils down to the original assessment made by the insurance company. I know it all comes down to the money, however surely the insurance companies must realise that when it is fixed it has to be safe and they would be liable if they had ordered less than safe work?

Who gets a carpet fitter toe fix electricals? If any further damage is discovered then surely this should go back to the insurance company and tough, they have to pay up further?

Seems we all lose out again,

best wishes

Rex

 

[DurhamSparky]

just a quick one!!

when i did work for homeserve for every Fire / Flood a inspection by both trades was carried out!!

not all insurance the same..!!