Interesting cutout and apparent lack of earth

[Gavin John Hyde]

Called to house customer wants new shower fitted, 2 extra sockets in conservatory and possibly the board upgraded.
No rcds on the board and when the smart meter folks came before christmas they refused to fit one due to the old cut out and fuse carrier cracked and old DNO(wpd) have been and fitted a new cutout and it appears the installation has no acceptable earth.
There is a connection of sorts to a sheathed cable at the top of the board which doesnt terminate inside. Its cut back and looks from earlier wiring. Can not locate the end of this cable.
The incoming supply looks as if it was Tns and there is a small cable cut back and wrapped up. Done by dno apparently customet says!
The new cutout looks as if it is set up for pme but waiting for confirmation.
Get a ZS on ring circuit of 21 ohms. First thought was TT but no rod to be found in or outside. Disconnected the one bonding cable to gas and get 21.9 ohms so not a vast difference.
DNO have told customer its all safe and no issue!! No rcds so the zs is way over the acceptable limit.
Considering putting a rod in myself but a damn pain as board is in middle of the house so a long awkward cable run.
Will be changing the board early this year and doing other bits but need things sorted first.
Thoughts?
I recall @Vortigern had conversations with WPD about earthing and cut outs so would be good if he can update us before i call them and query things.

 

[westward10]

Have you done a loop to the cable sheath. If it is okay I would consider using the coiled conductor.

 

[Wilko]

Perhaps also ask DNO to confirm TNS or not? Hopefully the response will be quick.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The incoming supply looks as if it was Tns and there is a small cable cut back and wrapped up.

If that's the short bit of VIR formed into a loop, and it's connected to the lead of the service cable, it's probably a very good earth. As the supplier did at one time supply it, they are probably obliged to maintain it, unless they provide TN-C-S instead, so probably more legit than making off a new earth to the lead.

The outgoing cable above the board with flexible braid overall is an old Octopus-style cable. Rare to see one of those by itself these days.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

If that's the short bit of VIR formed into a loop, and it's connected to the lead of the service cable, it's probably a very good earth. As the supplier did at one time supply it, they are probably obliged to maintain it, unless they provide TN-C-S instead, so probably more legit than making off a new earth to the lead.

The outgoing cable above the board with flexible braid overall is an old Octopus-style cable. Rare to see one of those by itself these days.

Its not connected to the incoming service head. The old earth cable from the head is about 6 inches long and coiled up below the new henley.

I did remove part of the insulation on the coiled cable below the cutout to do a Ze. Got 0.68 ohms. Not brilliant but with TNS limits.
Just seems a right mess. Readings suggest cack handed TT. Cut out looks ready for PME and the coiled cable beneath reads as TNS! So a pick and mix.
I await the DNOs reply

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I wasn't expecting the EC to be connected to the head, just sweated onto the lead. It sounds like whoever fitted the head left an airgap, for whatever reason.

 

[littlespark]

You’ll get an Earth off that gas main if all else fails. The handy, easy to get to, isolating valve.

I’m joking, before anyone attack’s me with a “dislike”

Certainly needs a good tidy up that board

 

[mhar]

The new cutout looks as if it is set up for pme but waiting for confirmation.

If it is 'set up for pme' the pme terminal will be exposed / accessible so do a loop test. If it isn't then do a two wire loop test on l & n or a 3 wire on l with both your n & e leads connected to the incoming n. The phase - neutral loop impedance figure WPD use for the existing network is 0.47 Ohms so equal or less than that value, it is quite possible they may have given you a pme connection. However do confirm before utilising.

As it is new, the job will have been recorded so any WPD employee with a laptop should be able to look up what was done, would take under a minute

 

[The Ghost]

As you may recall I have had some toing and froing with the WPD. Below is the conclusive email from the area manager no less. From what I see in your pictures there seems to be an obligation (legal) to maintain provide the PME earth that is obviously desparate to get out of the cut-out. Please use the below to remind them of their legal obligations and do feel free to quote from the below. I hope that is of use.
Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Since our conversation about this topic I’m concerned that you may be somewhat anxious that the subject matter has been forgotten, this is not the case.


Indeed, a colleague within our policy team is currently working on an information/fact sheet that will be put onto our web site to obviate further related issues.


The concern you raised has been helpful in focusing light on the subject of both domestic and commercial earthing practices and will hopefully enable us to produce a helpful guide.


In advance of this “official” guide, I’m happy to confirm the following:


· ESQCR reg 24(4) and 24(5) refers to making an earth terminal available for new/replacement LV connection in all cases unless unsafe to do so.


· ESQCR reg 24(1) refers to maintaining equipment i.e. an earth terminal.


So Western Power Distribution should be observing the above two fundamental regulations.


Yours sincerely


Gwyn Jones

Distribution Manager, Bristol