Is it ok to run cable within a boxed vent pipe?

[magicstu]

I may get my head bitten off for this, but please be nice. I want to get the supply to my cooker replaced from 6mm to 10mm, but the existing route is almost impossible, but there is an easier route following the vent/stench pipe (that is boxed in ) through the bathroom and into the loft, then across to the front of the house and back down to the consumer unit. One company said they cant do it, as it passes through the bathroom, another has said it's ok because the cable is not part of the bathroom, and the boxed corner is completely built into the wall, I want to run the cable myself and get the electrician to do the final burying of the cable in the kitchen wall for the last 1.5 metres, and the final installation at the consumer unit with a new breaker, neither have an issue with that, its just the cable running down the boxed in pipework- Can anyone tell me if there are any regulations that it breaches? Thanks

 

[Andy78]

Surely the electrician that is going to be making the final connections can tell you ?

 

[Geordie Spark]

I may get my head bitten off for this, but please be nice. I want to get the supply to my cooker replaced from 6mm to 10mm, but the existing route is almost impossible, but there is an easier route following the vent/stench pipe (that is boxed in ) through the bathroom and into the loft, then across to the front of the house and back down to the consumer unit. One company said they cant do it, as it passes through the bathroom, another has said it's ok because the cable is not part of the bathroom, and the boxed corner is completely built into the wall, I want to run the cable myself and get the electrician to do the final burying of the cable in the kitchen wall for the last 1.5 metres, and the final installation at the consumer unit with a new breaker, neither have an issue with that, its just the cable running down the boxed in pipework- Can anyone tell me if there are any regulations that it breaches? Thanks

Just a quickie from me cos I'm going out.

I don't see a problem with the cable sharing the space with the stink pipe inside the boxing, but we are not supposed to let cables dangle with out being supported.

If you could remove the boxing and maybe cable tie the cable to the pipe or clip it to the wall at intervals of say 2 feet then refit the boxing it would be acceptable.

 

[KAS1]

he's on holiday lol

 

[magicstu]

Surely the electrician that is going to be making the final connections can tell you ?

That's why I was asking, one electrician said it's ok, the other said it's not, but only because it passed through the bathroom. I thought it would be wise to get the opinion of a lot more people to find out.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Geordie, i have noticed as time marches on, things that dangle unsupported tend to sag.

 

[snowhead]

Would the company that said No, not run cables over the bathroom ceiling as "It's also part of the bathroom".

The cable will have to have protection appropriate for a buried / concealed cable of unknown depth.

 

[Guitarist]

Well, as you have already said, you are going to have to choose an electrician that you trust anyway and he is going to have to run the cable where he sees fit, so that he can connect the circuit and sign it off.
I'm sure you can understand that when someone tells us that "they will get an electrician in later", it normally means that they are planning to do the job themselves and want to know how.

My advice is...
A) Find an electrician you trust
B) Let him/her do the job

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Well, as you have already said, you are going to have to choose an electrician that you trust anyway and he is going to have to run the cable where he sees fit, so that he can connect the circuit and sign it off.
I'm sure you can understand that when someone tells us that "they will get an electrician in later", it normally means that they are planning to do the job themselves and want to know how.

My advice is...
A) Find an electrician you trust
B) Let him/her do the job

oh, you cynic Guitarist!

 

[telectrix]

point is ... why???? i'll bet that the cooker don'y need more than a 6mm cable on a 40A MCB ( if cable installed method C ) or a 32A if derating factors apply, unless 50% of cable is buried in insulation.

 

[Farmelectrics]

What's the load of this new cooker

 

[LED Lighting]

My question same as last 2, why are you changing to 10mm unless your cooker is over 8.5kW?
i have never had a cooker require a 10mm cable (except a commercial/industrial cooker!)

 

[Richard Burns]

Since your electrician will be installing the cable to the current regulations there will not be a problem passing the cable through the bathroom, it would only be if the installer was not meeting the current regulations for installing a new circuit that this would be a problem.
Oh and I agree with the others; 10mm is not required.

 

[davethsparky]

There are domestic cookers out there which require 10mm 50A supplies.
Wolf sprins to mind as one manufacturer, their big range cookers will draw 50A on their self cleaning cycle!
We got caught out by this once when I was an apprentice

 

[LED Lighting]

No offence but if the OP was/had bought a cooker at said value I doubt they would be arguing about who runs what cable and where they want to run it.

again I say it again why do you need a 10mm cable?

 

[DNS1]

but we are not supposed to let cables dangle with out being supported.

If you could remove the boxing and maybe cable tie the cable to the pipe or clip it to the wall at intervals of say 2 feet then refit the boxing it would be acceptable.

I was under the impression that it was permissible to let a cable hang for up to 5 metres before additional support was needed.

 

[tidyboiler]

Geordie, i have noticed as time marches on, things that dangle unsupported tend to sag.

Which is where duct tape becomes useful. :rofl:

 

[Andy78]

I was under the impression that it was permissible to let a cable hang for up to 5 metres before additional support was needed.

What, any cable ? any size ?

 

[davethsparky]

Without getting the book out I think that 5mtrs is the rule for cables in vertical trunking/conduit if properly protected against pinching down on a tight bend etc at the top of the run, don't think it applies to just any old cable though.
How you apply this kind of rule to this situation really requires an application of common sense and good judgement (I think most wholesalers have run out of stock of these special items though)

 

[DNS1]

What, any cable ? any size ?

Sheathed, without armour, any size.

Only got the old red copy of the On Site Guide to hand, in that it's in Appendix 4. No idea where it is in the updated copy.

 

[Andy78]

Sheathed, without armour, any size.

Only got the old red copy of the On Site Guide to hand, in that it's in Appendix 4. No idea where it is in the updated copy.

See Dave's post. Applicable only to vertical conduit and trunking runs.

 

[davethsparky]

Raises an interesting question though, If I can follow that rule and install a T+E cable in vertical trunking whilst properly supported at the top of the run for a drop of 5 meters, why can't I support a T+E cable at the top of a boxing and let it hang for roughly half that distance from ceiling down to floor level?

I'm not saying that this is either right or wrong, just that this is where the aforementioned judgement, experience and common sense come in to the equation. Some of the factors I would be considering are construction and contents of the boxing, the size of the cable and most importantly can I find another better route for it?

 

[DNS1]

See Dave's post. Applicable only to vertical conduit and trunking runs.

Nah, it's applicable to any vertical run which is inaccessible and unlikely to be disturbed. Eg: like the OP has suggested. Dave is right about the bend though, there's a table in the OSG so you get it right.

 

[Andy78]

Nah, it's applicable to any vertical run which is inaccessible and unlikely to be disturbed. Eg: like the OP has suggested. Dave is right about the bend though, there's a table in the OSG so you get it right.

Not in my book it isn't, lol, clearly states trunking, conduit, and ducting. Now you could argue that the boxwork is acting as a ducting, I would say it wasn't, as a cable ducting is somewhere dedicated for cables and you would happily run single insulated cables.

Common sense would suggest it would be fine if strain relief was provided at the top of the boxwork, but it's not something I would personally be that happy with, especially with a 10mm T+E. I'd be looking at all other options first.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I can't envisage ANY bathroom exceeding 5m in either vertical or horizontal dimensions, and 10mm cable may well be required and is very robust so in my opinion, crack on and wire it through there if that is easiest.