Is it ok to run cable within a boxed vent pipe?

[magicstu]

I may get my head bitten off for this, but please be nice. I want to get the supply to my cooker replaced from 6mm to 10mm, but the existing route is almost impossible, but there is an easier route following the vent/stench pipe (that is boxed in ) through the bathroom and into the loft, then across to the front of the house and back down to the consumer unit. One company said they cant do it, as it passes through the bathroom, another has said it's ok because the cable is not part of the bathroom, and the boxed corner is completely built into the wall, I want to run the cable myself and get the electrician to do the final burying of the cable in the kitchen wall for the last 1.5 metres, and the final installation at the consumer unit with a new breaker, neither have an issue with that, its just the cable running down the boxed in pipework- Can anyone tell me if there are any regulations that it breaches? Thanks

 

[magicstu]

getting confused now, the issue with the route for the cable is down to personal opinion of the electrician, so maybe they were both right? And looking at some of the answers, maybe I don't need it changed anyway??

 

[SPARTYKUS]

What does the manu instrs say

 

[magicstu]

if in doubt , contact a qualified electrician!! But yes it does state 10mm and a 45 amp mcb, but I am guessing they have to take worst case scenario on the values.

 

[Richard Burns]

The wiring regulations state we must take account of manufacturers instructions.
Your instructions do not seem too far out, so should be complied with, however in general they may be a bit of overkill, but would prevent problems. Because they may exceed the 15kW recommended limit (depending on the type of cooker) 6mm² and 32A breaker may not be suitable (but would probably work 99% of the time, cleaning cycles notwithstanding)
The cable run is not a problem, but fix it to the wall and not other pipework so as to prevent damage from future work.
The specs for the range of cookers you mention are like this

Fuel Type	Conventional oven	Fanned oven	Dual Variable grill (90/100 size)	Dual Variable grill (110 size)	Oven lamps	Single Variable grill (90 size)
Electric @240V	2.1kW	2.0kW	1.7 - 2.5kW 1.8 - 2.7kW	1.7 - 2.6kW 1.8 - 2.8kW	25W each	1.8kW
Appliance size	90E	100E	110E	Country Classic 100E
	220 - 240V	220 - 240V	220 - 240V	220 - 240V
	13040 - 15520W	12755 - 15180W	14100 - 16780W	12000 - 14280W

Connection between the consumer unit (45A MCB/Fuse) and the cooker control unit should be made with 10mm2 cable.
.
Connection between the cooker control unit and the appliance should be made with a 6.0mm2 twin and earth cable.

This appliance must be fitted using a double pole unit of 45 ampere minimum capacity with 3mm minimum contact at all poles.

Connection should be made with a 10.0mm2 twin and earth cable.

and so this would be the best solution.

 

[Engineer54]

Whatever load they specify will be ''connected load'' not the maximum load that can be drawn. All those loads will be clicking in and out via thermostatic control. Some loads will not be available when using another load (eg grill element with main oven element). Seems they are basing the recommended supply cable and OCPD seizes on the connected load, being permanently On, which you're never going to see!! I'd take those recommendations with a pinch of salt myself, another case where manufacturers instructions should not be taken as gospel, and in this case, with a 13.5 KW connected load, ignored!!

 

[Guitarist]

It's easy to quote what we all think, but if any electrician ran a 6mm in with a 32a MCB, then the unit tripped when the range went into self-cleaning, who's going to have to put things right FOC? The electrician of course. If the manufacturers quote 10mm on 40/50A, then just do it.

 

[Engineer54]

It's easy to quote what we all think, but if any electrician ran a 6mm in with a 32a MCB, then the unit tripped when the range went into self-cleaning, who's going to have to put things right FOC? The electrician of course. If the manufacturers quote 10mm on 40/50A, then just do it.

The wiring is already in place in this case!!

No way would i run a 10mm cable and with a 50A MCB for a cooker rated at 13.5 KW, you're welcome too though!! lol!!

Why would a self cleaning oven need anywhere near 50A anyway?? Besides, never found a self cleaning oven function that actually works anyway, just a total waste of electricity!!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Been mentioned on another thread, but I installed a new "range" style cooker the udda day with induction hobs, and an oven that could have both grill, and the oven, on at t'same time, like. Couldn't quite believe it myself as never seen that, but it was a very expensive oven (retail £5.5k, ex display she got it for £3k), and the function that allowed this space/time anomaly was .............

pizza setting!

it came with (also a first) the cable fitted to the cooker, it was 10mm2 3 core high temperature flex. Thought it was a water pipe at first.

 

[Engineer54]

Been mentioned on another thread, but I installed a new "range" style cooker the udda day with induction hobs, and an oven that could have both grill, and the oven, on at t'same time, like. Couldn't quite believe it myself as never seen that, but it was a very expensive oven (retail £5.5k, ex display she got it for £3k), and the function that allowed this space/time anomaly was .............

pizza setting!

it came with (also a first) the cable fitted to the cooker, it was 10mm2 3 core high temperature flex. Thought it was a water pipe at first.

Well you can't argue with that, if it came prewired with 10mm flex (i'd have expected that flex to be gold plated if i'd have spent £5.5K!! lol ) So what was the KW rating of this very expensive range cooker??

 

[SPARTYKUS]

It was ridiculous. Maybe 15kw.

 

[davethsparky]

Trust me, the big wolf ranges draw the full whack in self cleaning mode! They are big old beasts though, look like commercial cookers adapted to go in a house.
One of the ones we had was 1800 wide FFS!

 

[Engineer54]

I don't disbelieve you, but they would have to be way over 15KW, if this range cooker draws 50A in self cleaning mode. After all, the hob elements aren't going to be drawing any current at all, in self cleaning mode!! ....And that's a hell of a big chunk of the units KW rating taken out of the equation!!

Pure nonsense for a cooker of this size to be installed in a domestic setting anyway, unless of course you're cooking for the areas Meals on Wheels!! lol!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I don't disbelieve you, but they would have to be way over 15KW, if this range cooker draws 50A in self cleaning mode. After all, the hob elements aren't going to be drawing any current at all, in self cleaning mode!! ....And that's a hell of a big chunk of the units KW rating taken out of the equation!!

Pure nonsense for a cooker of this size to be installed in a domestic setting anyway, unless of course you're cooking for the areas Meals on Wheels!! lol!!

Have you any idea how many Chinese families can be squeezed into one two bed upstairs flat??

 

[Engineer54]

Have you any idea how many Chinese families can be squeezed into one two bed upstairs flat??

That'll be no problem, most Chinese cooking is either very fast high heat cooking, or very slow low heat cooking!! And they only eat a little, but often!! lol!! What's more you'd have a hard job finding a Chinese home over here with a cooker in the kitchen, they will just have a two ring gas or electric worktop affair and maybe, if lucky a worktop oven!! Microwaves are getting common now, but again only the small ones, not the bigger combo units you see in the UK etc!!


Afraid you picked on the wrong race to warrant an oversized domestic cooking range!! lol!!

 

[chrisjacob]

I think 6mm cable is fine for handling this issue. I recommend to first contact any registered electrician you trust and let them do this job.I have seen this in most older houses, they used this type of settings.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Some time back I rewired a domestic range installed by another company on a 32a/6.0 which continually tripped the mcb whilst cooking christmas dinner,put it on a 10.0/50a and it's done several chrismas dinners since..

 

[telectrix]

Some time back I rewired a domestic range installed by another company on a 32a/6.0 which continually tripped the mcb whilst cooking christmas dinner,put it on a 10.0/50a and it's done several chrismas dinners since..

if the 6.0mm was method C, i'd have no hesitation in upping the MCB to 40A.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Have we not got this damned cable run in yet????

 

[magicstu]

Have we not got this damned cable run in yet????

,,,, nope, after all the comments, going to fit the oven and see if it trips, as the friend who had the issues lived in an old house and maybe didn't have 6mm cable- thought it was a simple question of can I run the pipe through the boxing myself to save money(lost my job halfway through taking kitchen to bits), but if it needs replacing because it trips, I will just get the guy in who said it was ok and let him do the lot, Thanks for the time and info on this one, really appreciate it.