Is it right?? - Police officer still working for police and doing electrical and plumbing work

[sparksburnout]

Got a call from a local builder this week, asking if I could come and "have a look at a job". Upon asking what it was he said electrics in a new extension. So, as it was on my way home I called in for a butchers. Turns out it has already been done and he just want's "a sparky to issue a cert". I had a quick look round and straight away noticed 3 cables dropping out the ceiling clipped down the wall and through to the outside about a metre from the floor, no internal accessories or anything. I asked him what they were for and he said "oh the customer wants some low level bulkheads down the outside of the wall. So I asked him who had wired it up and he said XXXXX. now, this is about the 6th time i've been dragged round to a "job" like this and I just thought "right, blow this", so I said to the builder, "this job looks like a load of c**p mate so no I am not interested in "giving you a cert" and by the way that will cost you £40 for a call out, to which he told me to *** off. So, I kind of mentioned that I was on pretty good pints in the local terms with the local BCO (true) and that it might slip one evening, to which he reached into his grubby pocket and shoved 2 £20's into my hand. Now, on further digging about, I have discovered that the "sparky" involved is a still working COPPER who has done electrical, plumbing and god knows what other "courses" in the last 2 years of his service before retirement at the grand old age of 55. Never has my gob been so smacked, is it right??

 

[Diddy]

I think the op is looking at this issue all wrong. The fact that the other "electrician" is also employed in another job is irrelevant. The relevant part here is he is doing notifiable work without the ability to notify. If the scheme sparks in your local area stuck together and refused to notify A N Others work then this would be nipped in the bud pretty quickly.
But im afraid their are plenty of our fellow electricians who are quite happy to "sell their soul" for the 20 pieces of silver - So we are not going to stop this annoying stuff any time soon.
But just to clarify I would be just as peed off about Rob from the end of the bar doing me out of a job as I would about a retiring PC Plod.

 

[rolyberkin]

So you think it is OK for a guy in a perfectly well paid job with a very good pension to be moonlighting, probably undercutting other sparks who are trying to make a living as their sole occupation? How would you feel if you lost a job to some part time fly-by-night who is just doing it for beer money, and not very well at that?? Sorry matey I don't think it's perfectly acceptable at all.

I don't understand your issue, I agree with @happyhippydad, if it is declared secondary employment then I don't have an issue (apart from his crap work!) Personally I have more of an issue with crap full time sparkys who should know better! Isn't all work just for beer money?

 

[hightower]

I'm siding with Roly and HHD too - it sounds to me that you've got an axe to grind. I don't see the issue with two jobs provided the person in question still does both those jobs correctly. There's two angles to this for me:

1) You don't have enough work on
2) You have plenty work on

If you don't have enough work on, it's not necessarily people like this to blame. I know plenty of sparks whose attitude is "that's the price if you want me to do it, if you want a cowboy feel free to get Dave from the pub at your own peril" and they do just fine.

If you have plenty work on, then get on with it - it wouldn't be affecting you anyways.

Cheaper options exist everywhere. If you'll do a job for £1 someone will do it for 50p somewhere. Not just with labour, if you sell a product of quality for £10, there's guaranteed to be a cheaper knock off for a fiver.

What someone currently earns/gets in pension/has in job satisfaction has no bearing whatsoever on whether they are able/qualified/experienced/good enough to do a secondary job on the side, and I honestly can't see one ounce of logic in your argument that it does.

 

[sparksburnout]

I don't see the issue with two jobs provided the person in question still does both those jobs correctly.

I don't have an axe to grind at all, I think you have defeated your own argument in your statement actually. The fact that a copper is already doing a very demanding and time consuming job (the one in question is plain clothes), to me suggests he will not have the time to do another fairly demanding one, at least properly. IMO this is demonstrated in his obvious lack of awareness on this job. Who knows what other errors he is making in either of his "occupations", plus the fact that he is taking work from other sparks, probably so he can have the latest 4x4 and three holidays a year, while guys trying to make a go of it are losing out. IMO he is just a greedy *** Maybe it is just a sign of the times I guess.

 

[Spike1947]

I see where you are coming from , I don't think the Police nor the Fire service should be doing other paid ( legislative ) work , but my question is , who has done the design work for this ! .

 

[FatAlan]

Going to be a bit provocative here, but I think there is quite a high level of jealousy here in respect of a guy that has worked 30 years in public service and is lucky enough to be getting a good pension. He's probably decided that he's sick and tired of policing and therefore want to try something else. I've seen plenty of comments on here from old school sparks who don't understand why anyone would want to join the profession due to hard physical graft, increased competition and bureaucracy. Works both ways.

I'm intrigued with the arrangement (if any that you had with the builder). You say you' ve been on site six times. What happened on the previous occasions? Have you actually spoken to the guy? I'd reiterate the 3rd party process procedure and then ask him if he wanted me to check it over (for a good bit of wedge). If he wasn't interested just walk away.

 

[sparksburnout]

Going to be a bit provocative here, but I think there is quite a high level of jealousy here in respect of a guy that has worked 30 years in public service and is lucky enough to be getting a good pension. He's probably decided that he's sick and tired of policing and therefore want to try something else. I've seen plenty of comments on here from old school sparks who don't understand why anyone would want to join the profession due to hard physical graft, increased competition and bureaucracy. Works both ways.

I'm intrigued with the arrangement (if any that you had with the builder). You say you' ve been on site six times. What happened on the previous occasions? Have you actually spoken to the guy? I'd reiterate the 3rd party process procedure and then ask him if he wanted me to check it over (for a good bit of wedge). If he wasn't interested just walk away.

There is no jealousy here whatsoever I can assure you. I have plenty of work, you are missing the point. The very fact that this guy may have decided to "try something else" as you put it is exactly the problem, he is obviously under the impression that it is something that you can just do by getting a few tools together and maybe doing a 17th edition course, which he probably hasn't. Regarding the builder, I have had several such requests from different builders over the years (not the same guy), all of whom are trying to make extra money by short cutting the system and using people to undertake their electrical work who should not be, and then trying to get a proper spark to certify it. I am also slightly worried by your comment on checking it over "for a good bit of wedge", how would you inspect the first fix, for example?? I have decided that the next time it happens I am going to mention the builder and job in question to the local BCO.

 

[FatAlan]

I think we're probably at crossed purposes here. If you had been asked to act as a third party certify, presumably you would have looked at the design and first fix and advised accordingly . As you say, the builder is trying to pull a fast one. The Regs are there for a reason and in my view the more good professional qualified sparks adhere the better the trade will be for it in the long run. My comment re the wedge was purely that you would be charging appropriately for any time that you have to spend inspecting an testing or advising etc. What was going on re the six previous visits?

 

[Midwest]

I have decided that the next time it happens I am going to mention the builder and job in question to the local BCO.

As regards secondary employment, the cops in the US are allowed to rent themselves out to the shopping Malls, via their own agents, something cops over here aren't allowed to do, which is the correct thing IMO. However, if a cop wants to do some other form of secondary work, I can't see a problem in it. As long as they have the appropriate permission, and have the suitable qualification & expertise, whatever the job is. Quite why some people want to work 7 days a week is beyond me though. As said before, he might be doing this as a job, in preparation for when he leaves the police.

You last line I agree entirely, if electricians are employed by builders, without the appropriate qualifications & expertise, and in domestic work requiring Part P notification, then action should be taken against those employing such, when they know the requirements under the Building Regs. To use a criminal analogy, the maximum sentence for handling stolen goods, is twice that for (general) theft, to deter the primary offence in the first place. After all, failing to comply with Building Regs is a criminal offence.

 

[sparksburnout]

I think we're probably at crossed purposes here. If you had been asked to act as a third party certify, presumably you would have looked at the design and first fix and advised accordingly . As you say, the builder is trying to pull a fast one. The Regs are there for a reason and in my view the more good professional qualified sparks adhere the better the trade will be for it in the long run. My comment re the wedge was purely that you would be charging appropriately for any time that you have to spend inspecting an testing or advising etc. What was going on re the six previous visits?

Its not the same job!!!!! I meant previous visits with different builders. There are quite a few of them trying to cut corners to save dosh.

 

[FatAlan]

Ok. Apologies - miss-read that bit.

 

[hightower]

I don't have an axe to grind at all, I think you have defeated your own argument in your statement actually. The fact that a copper is already doing a very demanding and time consuming job (the one in question is plain clothes), to me suggests he will not have the time to do another fairly demanding one, at least properly.

So where does that leave full-time sparks that work 70 hour weeks? Where is the cut off point? Is it 40 hours, so that once a spark has worked 40 hours he isn't allowed to work any more that week since it's a demanding and time consuming job, and he obviously "will not have the time to do more fairly demanding work, at least properly". After 40 hours is he getting greedy and "pinching work from the pot" of other sparks? Once he hits a 40 hour week should he redirect his number to a spark that is not getting enough work?

Your argument is completely flawed. I could understand where you are coming from if you were specifically talking about this guy in particular, but you've already made it clear in the thread that you are making a more sweeping statement about anyone working in the field whilst having a primary job. Okay, you've encountered a poor spark. I don't see how you can take that experience and say anyone else in a similar position won't have the tools/experience/knowledge to carry out the job properly. I've seen full-time sparks who haven't a clue, and part-time sparks who are brilliant.

But since you seem to be know what tools people possess based on your own intuition, I wonder if you could tell me exactly what's in my van (and yes, you can have a Titan SDS as the first item on the list)

 

[sparksburnout]

So where does that leave full-time sparks that work 70 hour weeks? Where is the cut off point? Is it 40 hours, so that once a spark has worked 40 hours he isn't allowed to work any more that week since it's a demanding and time consuming job, and he obviously "will not have the time to do more fairly demanding work, at least properly". After 40 hours is he getting greedy and "pinching work from the pot" of other sparks? Once he hits a 40 hour week should he redirect his number to a spark that is not getting enough work?

Your argument is completely flawed. I could understand where you are coming from if you were specifically talking about this guy in particular, but you've already made it clear in the thread that you are making a more sweeping statement about anyone working in the field whilst having a primary job. Okay, you've encountered a poor spark. I don't see how you can take that experience and say anyone else in a similar position won't have the tools/experience/knowledge to carry out the job properly. I've seen full-time sparks who haven't a clue, and part-time sparks who are brilliant.

But since you seem to be know what tools people possess based on your own intuition, I wonder if you could tell me exactly what's in my van (and yes, you can have a Titan SDS as the first item on the list)

Is it the wrong time of the month??

 

[hightower]

Is it the wrong time of the month??

I just want to have a mature discussion with you about it, to try and see if there's any logic in your argument at all.

 

[sparksburnout]

I just want to have a mature discussion with you about it, to try and see if there's any logic in your argument at all.

Well, I have put my point over quite comprehensively regarding this subject, we will have to agree to disagree. If you want a mature argument then maybe it would be better to refrain from attacking my point in quite such an aggressive manner, hence my last comment. It is my opinion that undertaking electrical work in a professional manner is not something that can be done on an "on the side" basis, particularly when the person involved has a very demanding main occupation. Quite what I think is in the back of your or anyone else's van is quite irrelevant and smacks a bit of a "rant", I think. If a particular Sparky chooses to work a 70 hour week (good luck to them), then that is also irrelevant, as they will obviously be giving the job their full attention.