Is Part Pee fit for purpose / who is policing this scam ???

[Dustydazzler]

So mini rant coming up ...

While I am sure the wider majority of sparks follow the rules and certificate and notify their relevant work BUT in recent months I have been to numerous jobs where the customer has had significant wiring additions like new circuits in bathrooms , kitchens rewired and complete board swaps yet none of these jobs have any paperwork and non of them notified

Which is rather frustrating when I pay out significant fees to keep legit

 

[UNG]

As I understand it, the onus is on the homeowner to employ someone who will carry out the works in accordance with the law, so part P does not provide an apparatus for going after all the cowboys, only their victims.

I would hope the works carried out are compliant with BS7671 which is not a statutory document only the notification is the legal bit
So a contractor who doesn't notify is a cowboy even though his work may be of better quality and more compliant than someone who does

Problem today is too many people are total melts who don't do their due diligence or want it yesterday which is a scam rich environment. The people who just have a whimsical shrug when you inform their brand new kitchen or whatever has its wiring all bodged is what gets me, you think, "why are you not livid?" Thats worse than the overplayed outrage of those who knew they had a prat.

What about those people who do their due diligence and employ an NICEIC, NAPIT or other scheme contractor and get screwed over by them and then get no support from the scheme if they complain

The NIC EIC's prosecution of a token few prats who use its logo is about all the policing our industry really gets isn't it?

How would it look if the NICEIC prosecuted contractors approved by them for poor workmanship it may bring into question their whole assessment procedure and their approved contractor list

I explain part P to people thus - "imagine if 90% of all car crashes were being caused by an unlicensed 5% of drivers. The part P approach would be to more heavily regulate, burden and patronise the 95% while completely ignoring the existence of the 5%"

Part P is an HMRC scheme to catch those out who mis-declare their income for tax purposes, I know of two people who were prosecuted by HMRC and they used the Part P notification info to substantiate the prosecution

 

[ipf]

Part P is an HMRC scheme to catch those out who mis-declare their income for tax purposes, I know of two people who were prosecuted by HMRC and they used the Part P notification info to substantiate the prosecution

Wouldn't surprise me if they used NICEIC certs, too........for a nice little fee, of course.

 

[LukeD]

The whole system in the UK is a joke...And the sooner the Public know the better . I think 4 good men sat around a table for 10 days could easily come up with a GOVERNMENT controlled training route and a simple scheme . all 100% vetted and controlled . The Government earns , the customer gets better work , we all get better paid .

 

[Dustydazzler]

The whole system in the UK is a joke...And the sooner the Public know the better . I think 4 good men sat around a table for 10 days could easily come up with a GOVERNMENT controlled training route and a simple scheme . all 100% vetted and controlled . The Government earns , the customer gets better work , we all get better paid .

3 good women could probably crunch it out in 5 day s

 

[LukeD]

3 good women could probably crunch it out in 5 day s

In keeping with modern trend ......2 x transexuals could sort it in 30 mins

 

[Sookme]

I’m not registered, you only need to look at the reviews of NIC and Napit from both customers and competent sparks. Not many regard them yet they seem to try and rule the trade over competent knowledgable guys.

I’m a fully qualified electrical engineer level 3,4 and degree I’ve worked for many years in industrial, domestic and commercial. I always take 110% pride in my work and would never shortcut nor bodge electricity, in any premises.

I have my level 2 domestic installation, 18th wiring regs, 2391 and tonnes of pride and knowledge yet they won’t accept me on the scam scheme, when I’ve seen registered sparks work and picked up the pieces and mess afterwards. Most of it is generally shocking and annoying say compared to an old boy with 50+ years under his belt and pride who can’t join.

But it seems if you got money to pay for these short 6 week courses at their “recommended training provider” welcomed with a special handshake, pay the checks it’s welcome on in no issue at all.

I’ve enquired, with all my qualifications and experience they told me, you’re more than competent but you need to take these courses for just shy of £4000, plus membership fees and you can join. So I can enrol you for next week? Ummmm no thanks. If I’m not competent now I won’t be after your intense course. Qualifications are great but it doesn’t prepare you for the real world situations, a little wooden bay or classroom doesn’t come anywhere near a 4 story housing circuits, industrial or commercial premises.

So I just carry out un notifiable domestic work and industrial and commercial without building regs.

I really believe there needs to be some regulation and control in the industry but these companies are taking on people who carry out p*ss poor work to say the best, so there’s definitely no regulation nor regard for them. Unless I guess having the sign on your van or certificate does lure the public in to some false sense of security and guarantee though.

These “competent scam schemes” and their training providers must have a secret handshake they all do, seems as if they’re trying to replicate the industry like C&G have done with their qualifications, without them you can’t be in the industry and if you want them you have to cough up and they’ll get you through no matter of competency or quality.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Agree

CPS scams are all about the profit margin and nothing about raising safety workmanship standards

 

[timhoward]

I’m a fully qualified electrical engineer level 3,4 and degree I’ve worked for many years in industrial, domestic and commercial. I always take 110% pride in my work and would never shortcut nor bodge electricity, in any premises.

I have my level 2 domestic installation, 18th wiring regs, 2391 and tonnes of pride and knowledge yet they won’t accept me on the scam scheme, when I’ve seen registered sparks work and picked up the pieces and mess afterwards. Most of it is generally shocking and annoying say compared to an old boy with 50+ years under his belt and pride who can’t join.

I'm surprised you've been told that, as my understanding is that you more than meet the requirements for Napit (can't speak for NICEIC). The guide is here: https://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/forms/napit-guide-to-qualifications-requirements-electrical.pdf
Napit are usually helpful on the phone, I'd suggest double checking.

These “competent scam schemes” and their training providers must have a secret handshake they all do, seems as if they’re trying to replicate the industry like C&G have done with their qualifications, without them you can’t be in the industry and if you want them you have to cough up and they’ll get you through no matter of competency or quality.

I'm not one who defends CPS schemes, and agree that the quality of work from some supposedly vetted sparks in schemes can be awful. That said, while at Napit in Mansfield I've seen a couple of people fail exams right in front of me, one of them was competent but flustered and stressed, the other shouldn't have been in the room. Of late there are supposedly higher standards. There's a whole generation who got in under short courses that are still there of course.

 

[Sookme]

I'm surprised you've been told that, as my understanding is that you more than meet the requirements for Napit (can't speak for NICEIC). The guide is here: https://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/forms/napit-guide-to-qualifications-requirements-electrical.pdf
Napit are usually helpful on the phone, I'd suggest double checking.

I’ve spoken to a few over the phone at Napit, the first Lady was a little confused as my NVQ3 is in electrical engineering but covers installation, maintenance, handover, health and safety, electrical theory/principles. She never got back to me, so I spoke to a gent last week who said I would need to go down the c&g experienced worker route then the AM2E and 2391-52. He was quick to send me the links and get me enrolled and told me it’s the only way to join. Both said I’m clearly competent.

By the looks if I applied last year then it would of been ok as it was a lot more relaxed but they’ve tightened the schemes up end of 2021 from what I’ve read online to rule out the short courses. It has to be an NVQ from their list.

With time off work, hotel costs, course costs plus registration it’s a massive chunk of money over £5k cost in total, for something they say I’m qualified and competent. They just can’t except the NVQ.

Is there a governing body that oversees the cps? Maybe I could talk to them and run through the nvq and units?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I’ve spoken to a few over the phone at Napit, the first Lady was a little confused as my NVQ3 is in electrical engineering but covers installation, maintenance, handover, health and safety, electrical theory/principles. She never got back to me, so I spoke to a gent last week who said I would need to go down the c&g experienced worker route then the AM2E and 2391-52. He was quick to send me the links and get me enrolled and told me it’s the only way to join. Both said I’m clearly competent.

By the looks if I applied last year then it would of been ok as it was a lot more relaxed but they’ve tightened the schemes up end of 2021 from what I’ve read online to rule out the short courses. It has to be an NVQ from their list.

With time off work, hotel costs, course costs plus registration it’s a massive chunk of money over £5k cost in total, for something they say I’m qualified and competent. They just can’t except the NVQ.

Is there a governing body that oversees the cps? Maybe I could talk to them and run through the nvq and units?

Might be worth talking to these guys about this course. It's aimed at those who have taken short courses, looking to become qualified supervisors. Pretty much all online study, so you can do it as and when. But best check with NAPIT or whoever to make sure it's definitely accepted

Level 3 NVQ 2357 Package | EC4U

This package is designed for those who are looking to gain their Level 3 NVQ in Electrical Installation combining in person training with online learning.

electriciancourses4u.co.uk

 

[UNG]

By the looks if I applied last year then it would of been ok as it was a lot more relaxed but they’ve tightened the schemes up end of 2021 from what I’ve read online to rule out the short courses. It has to be an NVQ from their list.

Even if you got in last year I believe you would still have to show a training schedule that would bring you up to the new entry standard within a certain timescale

Is there a governing body that oversees the cps? Maybe I could talk to them and run through the nvq and units?

I doubt you challenging or trying to create an exception to a CPS's decision is likely to work with any of the CPS's there are many people who have fallen foul of last years CPS entry requirements and one successful challenge would only open the floodgates to more and defeat the reason for the changes

 

[westward10]

It really does beggars belief. A couple of years ago I got involved in a dispute of shocking work carried out by a NAPIT registered member only to be told on the side that these, for want of better words non qualified electricians are better under their eye than out there as rogue installers and yes that is what I was told. Unfortunately people like @Sookme who are clearly competent get the cold shoulder.

 

[mattg4321]

Well of course it’s better when they have £500 in their sky rocket from said chancer every year.

 

[loz2754]

£500

And the rest!

 

[Sookme]

Even if you got in last year I believe you would still have to show a training schedule that would bring you up to the new entry standard within a certain timescale

Not the case, if apart of a cps scheme before September 21 your membership would be honered and not affected by the new change. Both for Napit and NIC, it’s on their website and also the lady told me on the phone if I had been in a cps previously I would of been ok.

I doubt you challenging or trying to create an exception to a CPS's decision is likely to work with any of the CPS's there are many people who have fallen foul of last years CPS entry requirements and one successful challenge would only open the floodgates to more and defeat the reason for the changes

I agree totally there has to be a level of qualifications, but my nvq3 advanced time served apprenticeship as an electrical engineer covered all the units they want me to do for the skilled worker assessment or c&g equivalent nvq3. Installation, health and safety, handover, fault finding, work area, risk assessment, using manufacturers data, method statement etc…. Just because it’s on on their list, maybe they don’t realise the units covered? The reason for change is because they had been excepting people with no nvq3 or apprenticeship at all, taking short 6 week classroom courses and 18th edition enabling them to join. I’m not trying to create a exception as i think apprenticeship and the nvq3 portfolio is vital for hands on real site situation work it’s where you learn on the job.