Client has purchased a night flat in Edinburgh. Its perfect for using as a ST rental during the festival as the agents claim £6k a week is the value based on rooms and location. It was nicely decorated in 2018 and has a twin RCD Board . Wiring etc etc looks very good .Its a tidy install , sockets etc all good . Worth leaving as it is or will he hit a "wall" in the next few years with new regs about not having RCBO board do you thinK ? IT has a FRESH EICR that showed no issues .But recommended a board swap . He has plans to remodel it in 5-7 years and will be doing a full rewire etc etc then .
AI diagnostics could end up doing away with the electrician completely and just the need for a fitter to correct the fault already highlighted by the AI. 
Could be eventually the boards will refuse to re-energize the circuits unless you've done(or paid for) what the manufacturer saysAI diagnostics could end up doing away with the electrician completely and just the need for a fitter to correct the fault already highlighted by the AI.
Well that is essentially how main dealer garages work.AI diagnostics could end up doing away with the electrician completely and just the need for a fitter to correct the fault already highlighted by the AI.
You've conjured up an image that we'll turn up, plug a scanner into the CU, and see
N
nicebutdim
I tend to agree that a lot of mechanics have become more like fitters than they ought to be, but the fault finding process can be quite complex. In franchised dealerships they must follow manufacturer guidance or risk not being paid in full for warrantable work. Small garages rely on less complex software, but that's were the skill of fault finding comes to the fore. Most (non-OE) diagnostic software will tell you the area in which a fault has been detected, but not what the actual fault is. It takes skill to know when to replace parts and when that fault code is leading the mechanic to a really simple wiring fault. There's a special place in hell for mechanics who blindly follow fault codes and needlessly throw part after part at vehicles in a desperate attempt at fixing them.
And have the audacity to use a different manufacturers product in their board.Could be eventually the boards will refuse to re-energize the circuits unless you've done(or paid for) what the manufacturer says
@nicebutdim Still looking for a single module RCBO that monitors both live and neutral got a link to one? They all seem to be line monitoring only and just switch's the neutral whin the line trips.
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nicebutdim
I don't believe I suggested that such a device exists. From memory I'd mentioned devices which switch both poles. A signifigant number of 2 module RCDs work in exactly the same manner and simply drag neutral along with line.
European RCBO's I have used and come across monitor both the live and neutral and are dual module, the regulations in Europe would not allow single module in France or Germany.
Bit of confusion between just having the neutral dragged along with the monitored line, than the line and neutral both being monitored for fault.
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nicebutdim
Thank you for finding that post as I was certain that my comment would have related to switching, rather than sensing.
Reading further I can see that some ambiguity could be read from it and I'd like to clarify that I was referring to manufacturers whose focus has traditionally been on the continental market now offering single module devices which switch both line and neutral. As you rightly state, these devices would not be accepted in certain European countries and this shows considerable investment in products intended for use in a more limited market. Could this bring about eventual change to Europe's huge domestic distribution boards?
Perhaps look more closely at those DP 2 module RCBOs as it was on this very forum that I first learned that some were SP+N, rather than DP. Since then I've noticed schematics on other 2 module RCBOs which indicate they are also SP+N. Unfortunately this was learned through a simple act of curiosity and I didn't think to memorise or record details of the devices in question.
Edit: I think @pc1966 may have initially been responsible for this discovery.
The dual module/pole Hager RCBO's I have in my UK board sense both line and neutral, unfortunately due to the silly size board installed I have had to resort to single module line only sensing RCBO's for the lighting.
N
nicebutdim
What I don't understand, and would love someone to explain, is why some countries insist on DP (as opposed to SP+N) RCBOs. If a fault between L&E develops both will trip. If a fault develops between N&E both will detect an L-N imbalance and trip. Faults between L&N could elude both types of device, with overload/overcurrent protection taking over.
There must be a reason for an insistence on true DP protection, but it's not immediately obvious to me.
N
nicebutdim
Interestingly I note that Hager's UK page lists all 2 module RCBOs as 1P+N.
I think some EU countries used to have two L out of a 3P set, so no neutral as such, or maybe just poor enforcement of polarity (which the UK has had for a long time, well before 13A plugs in the 1940s), so you would need OCPD in both paths.
That also probably predated RCD, so I suspect it has just become an accepted requirement even if not strictly needed if N is strongly enforced.
These Hager RCBO's are listed as two Pole: Electrical Wholesaler - Hager 2 Pole 6kA B-10A 30mA A Class RCBO AD910J -
N
nicebutdim
Listed by a wholesaler as 2 pole, but not by Hager.
AD910J | Hager Africa
Looking for AD910J ? Find all the information for Curve B, 6kA type A - 30mA on the official Hager website!
hager.com
I can't help wondering if French and German requirements are for switching of both poles and this issue is one of terminology rather than technology.
It may be something to do with isolation of circuits, but good find in Africa, I take your point, seems they are all only line sensing and the neutral is just dragged along with it.
It's possibly also to do with the multi prong line and neutral bus bars used in most installations and the fact that most CU's do not have a multi terminal neutral bar.
It's possibly also to do with the multi prong line and neutral bus bars used in most installations and the fact that most CU's do not have a multi terminal neutral bar.
D
davesparks
Yes because electrical supplies in those countries need protection in both poles.
Many years ago double pole protection was required in the UK when the N-E connection was not necessarily reliable, but now our electricity supplies have the neutral reliably connected to earth and so we only need protection in the line.
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nicebutdim
That's what I was wondering. Essentially our single module 1P+N RCBO does exactly the same as a 2 module device?
If there is little risk of a "hot" neutral then that is true. You get the full isolation for testing and selectivity with any up-stream RCD protection for N-E faults.
However, if you do get a hot N situation then you rely on the RCD action for tripping, and that is far slower than the usual magnetic part of the MCB side of things. Also most SP+N type devices only have the arc-chute in the L side so a high energy N current fault might total the device, etc.
Ohh "Arc-Chute" and new phrase to throw about to customers. Thanks for that. 
Thanks for that. 
If the agents are correct at 6k a night during festival season..... you could get a gold plated CU with all bells and whistles....
D
davesparks
In the UK it generally will do yes. But in another country where supply polarity cannot be guaranteed or where neither pole of the supply may he reliably connected to earth then the difference should be obvious.
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nicebutdim
I'm not intimately familiar with conventions of electricity supplies in other countries. It's easy to forget that polarity is of less importance in other parts of the world and that reliable earth connections often aren't considered to be of as much importance as perhaps they ought to be.
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