Is this a Part P failure?

[glennuk]

Hi all,

New to the forum! Quick background on me: I have a degree in electrical engineering and spent many years working with qualified electricians on house re-wires. I never qualified as an electrician as I went down the IT route but I can rewire a house with no concerns - not that I would as I'm not qualified!!

A friend of mine asked me to review the electrics on his new extension as he is not happy with the work. Here is what I found:

1. None of the back boxes are earthed. Not a failure but poor practice

2. Loose socket back box and broken light box (missing lug).

3. Ring main cable passing through back of lighting back box ( switch box is level with socket in kitchen).

4. Breakers labelled wrong on the new DB.

5. Live wire sticking out the wall with no termination block! I fixed this one as super dangerous.

6. Live wires sticking out the ceiling with no termination block. Also dangerous but out of reach. Not fixed.

7. Armoured cable missing gland and outer casing not earthed.

8. Light switch in bedroom not screwed in to back box. I fixed this one as dangerous.

Photos attached of some of these. The builder did the electrics and signed it all off. There are a number of issues with the extension- not just the electrics. If I was an inspector I would not have passed it! However, poor practice does not necessarily equate to a Part P failure. So my question is do any of the above actually constitute as a failure?

Thanks in advance,
Glenn

 

[Dustydazzler]

The other amateurish oversight is using the black of the SWA as neutral and grey as the cpc, I come across this fairly often, very irritating.

Builders do it this way all the fecking time

 

[brianmoooore]

Annoying though it is, it doesn't actually contravene any reg. On the other hand, the lack of a blue sleeve on the black wire and a green/yellow (not just plain yellow!) sleeve on the grey wire does.

 

[loz2754]

The single insulated cables are a C2 with no possible argument

BPG4 issue 6 says otherwise.
Although, this is one instance where I disagree with BPG4, and agree with you. C2 any day of the week, as more often than not these meter cabinet doors are unlocked and left flapping in the summer breeze.

 

[glennuk]

Hi all,

Thank you all very much for all your input. My 100A comment was without me actually checking. I wrongly assumed it was 100A as my 1930s house is 100A so assumed all houses are 100A. Good spot! I've not looked too closely at the DB the builder installed. Probably higher than 40A the way things are looking!

Anyway, more than enough ammo to go back to the builder. My mate still owes him money so told him to get an independent electrician in to fix everything and knock it off the bill.

Thanks again and Happy New Year to you all!

 

[brianmoooore]

Should point out, that back in the day, when the whole supply, including the meter, was the responsibility of the local electricity board, not a lot of notice was taken of the rating of the meter when considering the supply capacity, so it wouldn't surprise me if the incoming fuse was 60A or even greater.
It's only since metering was separated from supply that the supply fuses have been maximised to the meter rating, as they now have a duty to protect the other party's equipment.
That meter must be approaching its retirement date, and will soon be changed, even if you don't fall the smart meter hype, and the new one will be rated at least 80A. This would be the time to check on what fuse is fitted, and to request an upgrade if it's too small.

 

[davesparks]

My mate still owes him money so told him to get an independent electrician in to fix everything and knock it off the bill.

That's not very sensible advice. They should make a formal complaint and give the original contractor the opportunity to address the issues and put their work right.

They should take proper legal advice on this as there are procedures that should be followed.

If they follow your advice then your mate may well find that they are being taken to court by the original contractor for the withheld money.

 

[glennuk]

That's not very sensible advice. They should make a formal complaint and give the original contractor the opportunity to address the issues and put their work right.

They should take proper legal advice on this as there are procedures that should be followed.

If they follow your advice then your mate may well find that they are being taken to court by the original contractor for the withheld money.

Thanks for the feedback. Will pass that on.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I have had it on a couple dozen occasions where the builder knows full well that they fecked up the wiring and after a complaint from the homeowner and a strongly worded EICR from me they agree XYZ money off the building work to put all the electrics right. On small jobs this might be as little as £500 but on some of the bigger jobs could be thousands to put right all the dodged wiring.
Get it all agreed in writing with the builder THEN get your own electrician of choice to put it all correct.

 

[someconsumer]

Probably tend to agree but how many get reported to NICEIC? I think mostly would get reported to the site agent.
Hopefully the NICEIC would act on one or two of them

It needs reporting so there is evidence.

The consumer needs to complain to the builder then if not success raise a complaint with the NICEIC.
However do not expect the NICEIC to resolve the matter.

Had exactly the same situation with a new build, the NICEIC used every loophole to avoid getting involved.
First they denied there were issues!
When pressed NICEIC agreed there are serious issues but in the view of the NICEIC inspector "the regulations don't apply".

Scandalous.

 

[Dustydazzler]

NICEIC WON'T DO ANYTHING

I looked at a new extension that a NIC DI had wired and on inspection there were live twisted cables slung in the loft with just a little twist of gaffa tape on them and I complained to the NIC this wasn't acceptable to leave a brand new install this way. The response was its the responibilty of the original electrician to come back and put right and nothing to do with them.

 

[brianmoooore]

BPG4 issue 6 says otherwise.
Although, this is one instance where I disagree with BPG4, and agree with you. C2 any day of the week, as more often than not these meter cabinet doors are unlocked and left flapping in the summer breeze.

On the grounds that it's in an enclosure only accessible with a tool??
Does that mean it's OK for all the wires in a loft to be 6491X singles, as long as I put a screw in the loft hatch before leaving?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Never had any dealings with NICEIC personally.

I have a customer who previously used a local electrical firm for some garden lighting, sockets etc. NICEIC approved contractors, with their own shop, nice vans etc, high price, appeared very professional.

The garden lighting failed in a short space of time, and started tripping out the RCD, taking half of the house with it. My customer couldn't get the firm to come back to fix it - several times they agreed a time and date, then didn't turn up, and eventually they stopped answering the phone.

My customer complained to the NICEIC, who did in fact visit to survey the work, agreed that it wasn't up to scratch, and forced the company to return to correct the it. I don't know what incentive was used to get them back, but I would guess that their membership was under threat.

My story seems to be unique, as I never heard of anyone else having any success in complaining to NICEIC. It seems that they would only get involved when all other options had been exhausted.

 

[mainline]

On the grounds that it's in an enclosure only accessible with a tool??
Does that mean it's OK for all the wires in a loft to be 6491X singles, as long as I put a screw in the loft hatch before leaving?

I don't think you could call an attic an enclosure, if that were the case the house itself could be classed as one.

 

[Midwest]

On the grounds that it's in an enclosure only accessible with a tool??
Does that mean it's OK for all the wires in a loft to be 6491X singles, as long as I put a screw in the loft hatch before leaving?

I'm the only one that goes up into my loft, I'm defined as competent (well nearly), and I need a special tool to open said loft hatch. The ones at work are a friggin nightmare to open, almost need a degree in loft hatch opening.

A better analogy is needed.

 

[littlespark]

have you got confined space training for going into that loft?