Is this acceptable, apparantly yes??

[mickytuff]

Ive been speaking to a spark who has said that on doing kitchen part rewires every day for b an q that you can use a maintenance free connection unit and then bury the cables in the wall, i.e plaster over them, save lifting boards upstairs, is this the case now, sounds bit rough to me..................any thorts boys????????

 

[Deleted member 9648]

But if you had a fault with a broken cable anyway due to another reason and you still end up ripping up Walls to find the fault, it leads to the same thing.
Personally I see no problem,your using a piece of appliance specifying the words 'maintenance free' so why not use them what they where made for.
You can argue "What if they are not terminated correctly?" But you can argue that about most things in our job seen or unseen. It's just down to the spark doing it.
I've even started with wago's now and if the ECA are deeming them good enough than thats good enough for me, as long as it's in a suitably rated enclosure.

Cables dont just randomly break !!!.....joints do.Look at the number of questions on here about breaks in ring continuity...I'll wager not one of those is ever a break on a continuous cable,(unless it has been drilled etc,in which case there will be some indication of it's whereabouts!)...it will always be where that cable is terminated....if that termination cant be found I'll wager it'll be a joint some kitchen fitter has botched in behind the tiling.....in which case it will never be found without major damage.
If this practice of completely losing joints in the fabric of the building becomes the norm there are going to be major problems in the future. I agree with Andyrc...if a joint is the only way use a flush box and a blank plate.

 

[malcolmsanford]

To play the devils advocate again are these actually allowed under regulation 526.3. I know the argument that the Wago came out after the introduction of the BS 7671-2008 and can be aligned more with regulation 120.4 for new invention, but there are a copule of things that have me concerned with these.

1. They still do not as far as I'm aware have a BS or EN standard. Again this is something that the Regs recognise as not being detrimental against the using of, but for a piece of equipment widely used in the UK now for a couple of years I would like to see them to a standard of some kind.

2. The new admendment to the BS 7671-2008 as made a change to Regulation 526.3 concerning non accessible joints but it again is rather ambigious in it's wording as it mentions joining of appliances that are maintenace free, so personally i'm waiting to see if that will include Wago type connectors used as a junction box.

There is no doubt that they are a good way of connecting cables, I'm not 100% sure if they are non accessible.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Ok. Let's say someone did make a joint with wago's and the joint was perfect ie no copper showing no strain on the cables in an enclosure.
And than plastered over. What could than cause this joint to fail? (I'm asking as a genuine question, not as an argument)

 

[telectrix]

it's obviously good practice to join the cable/s under the floor above, where access is available in case of faults, but it's still a joint ( cable, not spliff), how far do you go? back to the board ? .

 

[Adam W]

The joint could fail due to vibration from for example passing traffic, nearby groundworks etc, the plasterer's trowel, or the installer's definition of 'perfect'. I don't like this idea that "Wagos are fine because the regs say they are" - they're still a weak link, more so if they're poorly installed by, say, a kitchen fitter.

Also not convinced by the idea that cables are accessible because they're under the floorboards. Maybe more accessible than chipping away at the plaster on the walls, but not too accessible if the customer lays laminate flooring which they don't want ripped up.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Ok. Let's say someone did make a joint with wago's and the joint was perfect ie no copper showing no strain on the cables in an enclosure.
And than plastered over. What could than cause this joint to fail? (I'm asking as a genuine question, not as an argument)

Continual load may cause any mechanical joint to fail in the end...Wago's have not been around long enough to be considered 'permanant' IMO....I'd stake my mortgage on my assumption that as many of these so called maintenance free connectors will give as much trouble long term as ordinary connectors used as terminations and done with care.

 

[paulanderson22]

ive come across this before but usualy they use a jb and a bit of cardboard!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

If it's a crimped, etc 'joint' (which yes, is considered a permanent joint, but its still a joint) then why not just take two measurements from a corner and note it on the cert where it is? Draw a picture on graph paper and make it page 5 of 5.

Not so hidden then. Not the best answer I know but you'e not hiding it then. I know, it assumes the next kitchen fitter looks at the certificate ..... Ok forget it bad idea