Is this price fair?

[cronshd]

Hi (this is my first post)

We are having a lot fo work done on our house which includes electrical work - which our main building contractor manages by pulling in the trades with the guys he works with on projects like this.

I am continually amazed at the cost of the electrics.

here is one example:

Supply, wire and fit 12LV downlights - £960 ecxcl VAT.

Is that about right?

I keep feeling I've been a bit naive because the electrics, including VAT is now >£14k - which seems a massive amount - and that excludes some of the fittings eg in the hallway and dining pendants which we are expected to get ourselves.

How do I challenge this? Or is it the going rate?

(This is in the Home Counties).

Thanks, D.

 

[cronshd]

I had a phone call with the builder/project manager this morning.

Didn't really get anywhere. I did request the paperwork/invoices for all the fixtures/fittings/materials used by the electrician.

He said that the pricing is always done in the same way.....so that it takes account of overheads/site costs plus his margin. The price of a socket is always the same if it 1m from the board or 20m.......

- I made the point several times that the total of £15k was like rewiring several houses.
- I made the point that it is all well and good to price individual tasks like that - but it doesn't stack up when you add it all up it is just way too much and is unreasonable.
- I made the point at the line item level that a price of (say) £360 for doing a under the counter LED strip would imply (if labour rate is £250-300/day) that such a job would take a day.
- I made the point that for this kind of price I would expect some very fancy lighting (eg. mood lighting) which we have not got

Response was the same......that is the price. So it's like me saying this is unreasonable/excessive and does not stack up - and he says "well - that is the price - that is how we do the pricing for jobs".

Not sure where to go from here. Will see what the paperwork looks like - not holding out too much hope of detail there.

The one thing we agreed on was that we did not want to fall out over this.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Unfortunately you seem to have got your answer really, that was their price and you must have agreed to it.

I suppose it could be argued paying for Fish n Chips, if someone tells you it is 20 pound and you accept it, but then think ........hmmmm it's only 2 pound down the street, the guy is not going to drop his 20 pound price if that is what he sells them for and people are willing to pay that.

Just think that this is a lesson you must have to learn to live with in all honesty. I'm sorry that it as turned out this way for you, but if the job is done correctly, safely, to an high standard and you receive all the correct documentation, then that I suppose is what you've paid for.

 

[KFH]

You said in an earlier post that you had walked around agreeing to the items that were required following changes. Were any items removed from your original £6k list? If so you may be able to see f they have been removed or has he started at £6k and added the changes on?

From the response you got from your builder I would suspect that it is an argument he has had before. Most of us would have an idea of around say £80 for a new socket but would look at the job and say if it is next to the consumer unit and am already on site it will be cheaper and if it involves running 4mm T&E all around the house and it is a one off visit it will be much more expensive.

While he agrees he does not want to fall out over it I would suggest that you already have as you will obviously have difficulty trusting him in the future.

While we are all guilty at times of not getting quotes up front for everything, it is how we should always proceed unles we have a very high degree of trust in the person/firm with whom we are doing business. Will you do business with him again without getting everything in writing and all amendments in writing with quotes?

All businesses make mistakes or have problems, it is not the fact that these occur that is an issue but how we deal with them when they occur.

 

[cronshd]

Unfortunately you seem to have got your answer really, that was their price and you must have agreed to it.

I suppose it could be argued paying for Fish n Chips, if someone tells you it is 20 pound and you accept it, but then think ........hmmmm it's only 2 pound down the street, the guy is not going to drop his 20 pound price if that is what he sells them for and people are willing to pay that.

Just think that this is a lesson you must have to learn to live with in all honesty. I'm sorry that it as turned out this way for you, but if the job is done correctly, safely, to an high standard and you receive all the correct documentation, then that I suppose is what you've paid for.

Yes - you're right, as I said before, it is a lesson learned.

The price I originally agreed and signed for was £6k (excl VAT). Then the Additional Works contract appeared (after I changed the scope) - and it shot up to £12k. I have not signed the Additional Works contract as it has only just been finalised (but work has been proceeding). When this figure came up I said it must be wrong and we sat down together to go through and take things out. At that stage it was more focused on driving down the price by eliminating some things (eg. plinth lighting) rather than the cost rates per item.

Anyway.....to take your analogy further, I felt it was a bit like going to an 'all you can eat buffet for £10'. Going in and then realising you also wanted desserts and coffee and being told (after being shown some additional goodies by the sous chef).........."that's another £10 please.....".

 

[cronshd]

You said in an earlier post that you had walked around agreeing to the items that were required following changes. Were any items removed from your original £6k list? If so you may be able to see f they have been removed or has he started at £6k and added the changes on?

From the response you got from your builder I would suspect that it is an argument he has had before. Most of us would have an idea of around say £80 for a new socket but would look at the job and say if it is next to the consumer unit and am already on site it will be cheaper and if it involves running 4mm T&E all around the house and it is a one off visit it will be much more expensive.

While he agrees he does not want to fall out over it I would suggest that you already have as you will obviously have difficulty trusting him in the future.

While we are all guilty at times of not getting quotes up front for everything, it is how we should always proceed unles we have a very high degree of trust in the person/firm with whom we are doing business. Will you do business with him again without getting everything in writing and all amendments in writing with quotes?

All businesses make mistakes or have problems, it is not the fact that these occur that is an issue but how we deal with them when they occur.

Yes - agreed. The point about the 'walk around and agree to additional items' is actually an important one.

At that point we had the £6k agreed and signed. The additional was a bathroom, en-suite and corridor with 3 lights and external work. I did not imagine that would total more than £2k - which is the case. Things was, when we went round, because there were other trades there at the time, our builder went off with them and left us alone with the electrician. So he would make suggestions as we walked round the whole job (including what we had already signed for - ie kitchen-lounge-diner) - and my naive assumption was that anything he said was included. The builder was not there as the 'guardian' to say "that will cost you extra" at any point.

So..........that is one way I got shafted in this case.

And that was even with me saying to the electrician "we want to keep it simple".

 

[Robinson]

. Then the Additional Works contract appeared (after I changed the scope) - and it shot up to £12k. I have not signed the Additional Works contract as it has only just been finalised (but work has been proceeding). .

So if you have not signed the extra works contract who gave him the go ahead to do extra's? why did work proceed? If you did not agree for work to continue then neither builder or sparks have got a leg to stand on. You can quite easily say "well now you seen the ridiculas pricing scheme you do not want the work. just pay up to the level of your 6K and tell him to. tuff....remove work or negotiate a reasonable costing.

I personally think its outrageous. Just done an extension with living/diner, posh Kit with led under cab, 21 spots, 10 double socks, Boiler controls and supply, cooker point. 2 extracts, ALL MK gear. 15 way board change and FULL EIC test. He paid for the spots....In all was just over £3000

 

[JamesBrownLive]

I guess at the end of the day, it all comes down to how far exactly you want to take this...

If you have not signed anything, other than for the original 6K of work, then the fact that they have started the work without written authorization is their problem. Of course if they wanted to, they could simply say that you agreed verbally, especially if they back each other up on it. It will be your word against theirs. And contrary to popular belief, a verbal contract is as good as a written one, its just obviously harder to prove.

It's all very well saying you want to stay on good terms with the builder, and he with you, but at the end of the day what does it really matter. Personally, if I thought someone had tried to rip me off to the extent that you seem to have been... staying on good terms would be the very last thing on my mind :yesnod:

 

[nikmet]

Contact the electricians scheme provider, I know elecsa for one are not impressed when nothing is quoted in writing, find out which scheme they are registered with and make a formal complaint

 

[Frosty69]

I don't think the scheme provider would care to be honest, there not in place to govern your prices. He could only complain if there was something wrong with the work. The spark could be covering his overheads? 1-bugatti veyron as a van2-gold plated tools (with insulated handles)3-eats lobster every day for dinner

 

[nikmet]

I was told by elecsa if I had nothing agreed in writing and a dispute over cost etc arose, then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on, if I was the client I'd refuse to pay as it's obviously a rip off

 

[Frosty69]

I agree mate, I would personally get a few quotes of local sparks and see what they come up with, just do it under the cover of darkness when dick Turpin leaves site!

 

[Octopus]

I suspect the agreement is between Chrond and the builder, and that that agreement is what everything has to be based on. End of.

 

[mayfair]

Agree totally Murdoch maybe an idea would be to mention the amount paid for the work to the sparky and see if the you know what hits the fan. If he argues the ---- well there both a couple a Dick Turpins without the mask

I suspect the agreement is between Chrond and the builder, and that that agreement is what everything has to be based on. End of.

 

[1shortcircuit]

I'm sorry OP but it seems you're not only being bent over the barrel but it would also appear that they are trying stick something oversized in there.......... dry!!! lol

 

[Geordie Spark]

personally sounds like a lot of work! how long has the project been going?

only time will tell about the final price / finish!

bit high for N.East area but cant comment on down south!

I agree.

My first house cost less than half of what he's paying for his wiring !!!