Is this the end of 6 week wonders? New Domestic Gold Card Apprenticeship announced

[Electrics]

New Domestic Apprenticeship announced leading to Domestic Gold Card

Interesting.

Still as clear as mud how this will work but this is probably the thing we've all been waiting for.

Hopefully it will clear the waters and stop DIY Dave having a go - making a Gold Card the standard should make domestic electrics like Gas Safe where people will start to recognise that only those who hold a qualification should be touching them. The beauty of industrial/commercial work is it's extremely hard to get work in those sectors if you're not absolutely 'qualified' with a Gold Card. Some blokes even struggle when they have the qualifications but haven't served their time.

This change in the domestic sector will in turn drive up prices and help real electricians who charge real prices secure the work instead of someone quoting pittance to do a bodge.

What say you, board?

 

[Electrics]

^^^^^ nor me not been asked once in the 22 years I have been in the electrical industry!
It saddens me to say that it will still make little difference to our trade!?

You don't think most of those currently doing domestic electrics would cease to do so if it were made a criminal offence? At the very least they will get the qualifications this new thing demands or cease to carry out domestic work imo.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Remind me how many DIY Daves or Bob the Builders are doing porridge for breaching Part Pee ???

 

[Dustydazzler]

You don't think most of those currently doing domestic electrics would cease to do so if it were made a criminal offence?

NO Not a Chance , as the fee or fine will be so weak that they will take the risk anyway

 

[Electrics]

Remind me how many DIY Daves or Bob the Builders are doing porridge for breaching Part Pee ???

I would hazard a guess that most of those wanting to get into the industry who are diluting it with crap prices, no skills, etc, would not go down that path should there be a 3-year+ standard to adhere to.

The point of this is that there will be a standard coming in that means the 6 week courses can no longer churn out thousands of 'sparks' a year.

There will ALWAYS be those who will do the work irrespective but picture the scene:

You're looking for a change in career. Electric has always interested you. You look at some youtube vids you think ---- yeah i like the look of this. Pull up some floorboards, lash in some wires, grand a week, easy game.

You then do some research and find out it's illegal to do any of this without a 3 year apprenticeship or going an 'experienced worker' route. You heard about these 6 week courses but find out they're no longer offered since they're not legally allowed to do so, they've been replaced by a 3 year domestic apprenticeship that requires you to work for a firm and gather a portfolio of evidence.

You're telling me this guy is then still gonna just set up on his own? No chance. 90%+ of all those candidates will no longer join the industry.

It's not gonna stop the guy down the pub, the homeowner, the cowboy. But it is going to stop industry dilution of people with no experience and short courses competing with those who put in the real time on an apprenticeship.

That's my take anyway.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Exactly

 

[Electrics]

Remind me how many DIY Daves or Bob the Builders are doing porridge for breaching Part Pee ???

What 'breach' of Part P? As far as i'm aware that's just a building regulation that states the HOMEOWNER has to inform Building Control of electrical work. That's why people get away with doing it, because it's not an actual law governing what an ELECTRICIAN must and mustn't do.

 

[SparkySy]

I don't think it being illegal will make a great difference there are plenty of things out there that are but it doesn't stop people doing them!
Even gas works are still undertaken by those who are not qualified! The more honest of people will be turned away by it but there will always be those who really don't care as they make too much money from scamming people!
Got to love capitalism!

 

[Electrics]

I don't think it being illegal will make a great difference there are plenty of things out there that are but it doesn't stop people doing them!
Even gas works are still undertaken by those who are not qualified! The more honest of people will be turned away by it but there will always be those who really don't care as they make too much money from scamming people!
Got to love capitalism!

But how many people would undertake a £5k 6 week course knowing they wouldn't be allowed to touch electric after?

You don't think this stops an influx of career changers doing short domestic courses?

Those doing it for beer money will continue to do so and always will. This stops honest people (most of them) from taking on short courses to get into the industry.

Combine that with the planned changes for competent person schemes demanding experience not just 2365 and you really don't think this changes anything at all?

A***Skills and TS4U are, between them, doing £6.7m of 'sales' per year. If you count that as everyone paying the full £9k it's 745 people per year not coming into the industry and that's just two providers.

When you consider that the vast majority of their sales are not the full £9k but sometimes just £2500-5k for the domestic routes that number is up to 3-4 times larger.

What percentage of those 745 people will pay that money knowing they will not be able to touch electric after? What proportion of them will say 'ah ---- it' and set up on their own anyway without paying the course fees?

If even 10% do, that's between 650ish to 2500 people per year not entering the profession just based on those two training centres.

Now what about the thousands on 2365 Diploma's up and down the country who aren't working for someone? If they are also banned from working without a portfolio/experience then they will have to get jobs, meaning they also won't leave en masse and set up alone.

I think this stops massive dilution of the industry.

 

[Dustydazzler]

What we all really want to know IS ...

Will it make you a QUALIFIED electrician

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

From my experience, everyone carrying out electrical work who shouldn't be hasn't even been on one of these 6 week courses you're talking about. They're just handymen who think they can do it but they couldn't be more wrong

 

[Dartlec]

What 'breach' of Part P? As far as i'm aware that's just a building regulation that states the HOMEOWNER has to inform Building Control of electrical work. That's why people get away with doing it, because it's not an actual law governing what an ELECTRICIAN must and mustn't do.

That's because of how poorly Part P was introduced and awareness pushed out by the authorities.

It makes some work notifiable, but it also applies to ALL new work done that comes under building regulations.

In fact it's the only legally binding document that covers electrical work, though it mostly just says 'do it as BS7671 says', with the exception of things like socket heights, etc.

It's only real clause is that:

"P1. Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury"​

But breaching it is a criminal offence.

For whatever reason, the authorities almost never prosecute a breach of it though, and where electrical incompetence is involved they generally seem to go the EAWR route, perhaps because there are higher penalties (penalties for building regulations are fines only, though technically unlimited as to amount).

What SHOULD be happening is that LABC were funded and trained appropriately to monitor work in their area, and dish out enforcement notices to require crappy work to be corrected. Instead, building inspectors are generally being privatised, overworked, and as often as not barely visit a site any more in my experience, let alone monitor whether electrical work has been done properly. (Some areas are better than others)

Fun fact: The current Part P document on the Gov.uk site still says: "Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment No 1:2011"

 

[Dustydazzler]

From my experience, everyone carrying out electrical work who shouldn't be hasn't even been on one of these 6 week courses you're talking about. They're just handymen who think they can do it but they couldn't be more wrong

THIS

An these very same people will have zero idea about this new courses and new accreditation.
They will carry on doing what they have always been doing.
The only way things will ever change is if you start throwing builders in jail who try to wire up their own work...

Inventing a new 'course' will make absolutely ZERO difference to the handyman , DIY dave and Bob the Builder world of electrics

 

[Dartlec]

THIS

An these very same people will have zero idea about this new courses and new accreditation.
They will carry on doing what they have always been doing.
The only way things will ever change is if you start throwing builders in jail who try to wire up their own work...

Inventing a new 'course' will make absolutely ZERO difference to the handyman , DIY dave and Bob the Builder world of electrics

100%

And include Kevin the kitchen fitter and Benjamin the bathroom fitter in that....

 

[Electrics]

I really don't get how nobody seems to realise this thread is about those doing short courses and not 'dave down the pub'. It's even in the thread title. ?

 

[Dartlec]

I really don't get how nobody seems to realise this thread is about those doing short courses and not 'dave down the pub'. It's even in the thread title. ?

But the purpose of this change is presumably to raise the standards of domestic work? That's the issue with this change.

If the change is purely to stop short courses happening, then they may well achieve that - but it will make little practical difference - it may even make things worse.

I have little to no faith in the ability of this Government (or any previous one tbf) to suitably legislate in a way that achieves what is needed. Too many landlords with hands directly on the wheel of power or the ear of those that do to achieve an outcome that helps the industry AND homeowners.

As a 'short courser' from the very start of Part P days, I'm happy to admit that they have many flaws - but then again I've seen enough dodgy work from 'fully qualified' tradesmen with all the certificates to know that it's more complicated than that...