Isolator position for immersion heater?

[jstephens251]

Hi everyone,
just after some advice.
I've wired a new s plan system which has gone fine.
plumber has installed a pressurised tank in loft and I have wired the immersion to the customers off peak supply. The isolator for the immersion is in the Airing cupboard along with wiring centre and programmer.
They have had another electrician doing some work (I was working for plumber) and he has said I haven't followed regs regarding isolator for immersion? What's everyone's thoughts on this, I'm within 2M but it's in loft above, thought this would be easier for user to isolate.
many thanks
Jon

 

[andyb]

If the switch is purely functional (which in this instance it is) then where you have it is fine.
The mcb will be fine for maintenance.
You can't expect the client to go crawling around the loft to switch it on when the boiler fails, or when there's an emergency to turn it off.
You could put a switch in the loft for maintenance as well as one in the airing cupboard if you want, but there really is no need.

 

[Richard Burns]

What is this "Part P" that you have got? I've always wanted to know this. Is it some type of qualification?

I'm not being funny, just curious, as it is something that is mentioned a lot - and it doesn't make sense to this old wrinkly sparky.

There is a city and Guilds "qualification" Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings (2393) that is often referred to as a Part P qualification. This is a very basic "read the electricians guide to the building regulations and you are done" type of course.
Units are
The general requirements of theBuilding Regulations in relation toelectrical installations in dwellings
Methods of compliance with the sixparts of the Building Regulations mostrelevant to electrical installations indwellings

Very taxing!

 

[jstephens251]

there are 3 big housing estates in my area and all have the immersion switch labelled in the kitchen with the immersion tank in the loft on a flex outlet, if you wanted to ensure isolation, surely you could isolate and lock off the mcb in this instance and it would suffice?

think the guys a bit of a plum for getting snotty with your install, i would have probably done the same thing as you, the customer is going to find it a real pain and possibly a health and safety issue(depending on their age and health) climbing up in the loft to turn the immersion on and off

thanks and completely agree, he's actually disconnected it to make me go back and sort it out, i would of anyway.
I've seen loads of installs with these huge cylinders high level and the switch is at user position.
I agree the regs are there and must be followed but they don't always suit the users who has to live with it.

 

[jstephens251]

What is this "Part P" that you have got? I've always wanted to know this. Is it some type of qualification?

I'm not being funny, just curious, as it is something that is mentioned a lot - and it doesn't make sense to this old wrinkly sparky.

Part P -

I was joking about this, I have insurance and qualifications to cover me.

 

[jstephens251]

If the switch is purely functional (which in this instance it is) then where you have it is fine.
The mcb will be fine for maintenance.
You can't expect the client to go crawling around the loft to switch it on when the boiler fails, or when there's an emergency to turn it off.
You could put a switch in the loft for maintenance as well as one in the airing cupboard if you want, but there really is no need.

It is functional and agree its a waste of time fitting another one.

Trouble I have is if i argue the case with the customer its going to make look like I'm getting out of it.

I'll fit another with 5000 labels around the house to its location and be done with it

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes Richard, But the 2393 course is just a one day-er that gets the candidate knowledgeable about the Building Regulations Part P - Approved Document. Like the "17th Edition" 2382, it only expects that you can read and find your way around the document. It has nothing to do with the ability to actually design, install & test anything electrical.

That's why I was asking what anybody meant by "I've got my Part P". Does it mean that he/she has all of the entry requirements and is a member of one of the CPS scams, I dont think so.

 

[andyb]

It is functional and agree its a waste of time fitting another one.

Trouble I have is if i argue the case with the customer its going to make look like I'm getting out of it.

I'll fit another with 5000 labels around the house to its location and be done with it

I know where you are coming from. You need to keep your customer happy and reassured. Do what you think best but I would call the 'electrician' and ask him what reg he thinks you are contravening. Don't forget, you are the designer of that particular circuit, and if you fit a functional switch in a cupboard then that's your decision not his.

 

[davesparks]

thanks and completely agree, he's actually disconnected it to make me go back and sort it out, i would of anyway.
I've seen loads of installs with these huge cylinders high level and the switch is at user position.
I agree the regs are there and must be followed but they don't always suit the users who has to live with it.

And again if you knew the regs well, and had confidence in your own abilities then you could have sat down with them and explained it to them and got away with it. Right now you have admitted that you are in the wrong and potentially damaged any good reputation you may have.
If someone had disconnected a circuit I had worked on and told the customer my work was wrong I'd be explaining to the customer why the other persons actions were incorrect and they have no power to disconnect like that.

 

[jstephens251]

And again if you knew the regs well, and had confidence in your own abilities then you could have sat down with them and explained it to them and got away with it. Right now you have admitted that you are in the wrong and potentially damaged any good reputation you may have.
If someone had disconnected a circuit I had worked on and told the customer my work was wrong I'd be explaining to the customer why the other persons actions were incorrect and they have no power to disconnect like that.

fair comment

 

[Paul.M]

Just so I know the set up, you have a designated circuit for the boiler which is required for submerged heating elements, good.

Double pole functional switch down stairs, good.

Why have you not installed a double pole fused local isolation switch within 3m of the boiler for maintenance, service, repair, testing etc that can be locked off? This is all that is needed if I've read this thread correctly.

 

[jstephens251]

Just so I know the set up, you have a designated circuit for the boiler which is required for submerged heating elements, good.

Double pole functional switch down stairs, good.

Why have you not installed a double pole fused local isolation switch within 3m of the boiler for maintenance, service, repair, testing etc that can be locked off? This is all that is needed if I've read this thread correctly.

Hi Paul,

Theres a separate supply for an Immersion Heater which now has a DP isolator in airing cupboard and a DP isolator in loft, both labeled.
There is then another circuit for the heating controls with a DP isolator in airing cupboard fused to 3A, also labeled.

Thanks

Jon

 

[Risteard]

there are 3 big housing estates in my area and all have the immersion switch labelled in the kitchen with the immersion tank in the loft on a flex outlet, if you wanted to ensure isolation, surely you could isolate and lock off the mcb in this instance and it would suffice?

The main switch is the isolator. A single pole device should not be used for isolation in a domestic dwelling.

 

[Hellmooth]

I think that other sparks sounds like a bit of a t###, surely this minor issue could have been resolved with less fuss ?
I assume you fitted a flex outlet plate near the cylinder in the loft jstephens 251 - or possibly H/R flex all the way from the DP switch in the airing cupboard ? Either way I think a simple label near the cylinder with isolator location etc would be fine IMO.

Is the other spark Davesparks maybe.......? Jokes of course!

 

[jstephens251]

Is the other spark Davesparks maybe.......? Jokes of course!

uh oh........

 

[Hellmooth]

uh oh........

Was it something I said? :whatchutalkingabout