JIB Rates, are they fair?

[E_Jon23]

I work for a company that isn't JIB registered but follows the JIB pay grades (Not London) I use my own vehicle and all expenses for my van are covered by myself. I got looking last night and there's a £0.92p/h difference in pay between having a company provide transport and you providing your own. I crunched some numbers last night and it's currently costing me £6.30 p/day in running costs (excluding van depreciation)
Those that provide their own transport, are we getting a fair pay rate? & what are peoples opinions on the JIB pay rates grading system?

Now onto fuel. Day to day jobs can be anywhere and mileage can vary including trips to the wholesalers etc.. If I were to travel say 137 miles (all-around journey/8 hour day) I'd be working on minimum wage that day. I was told I can claim mileage through the gov website? But even still it doesn't sit right that my bottom line gets cut into/having to wait for the money to come back to me.

A couple of other little points I found in the JIB book.
"Day workers (operatives other than those employed on shift or night work or on any work carried out beyond working hours) shall be paid at the rate of time and a half of the appropriate hourly rate of pay for time worked before 7.00 am or after 7.00 pm on any day or at such higher rate as might otherwise apply under these National Working Rules." - Often required to start before 7am

"The number of hours to be worked at normal rates in any one week (Monday to Friday) before any overtime premium is calculated shall be 37½ hours. Premium time shall be paid at time-and-a-half" - Very often work above 37.5hours

Obviously the company would tell me these don't apply because they're not actually JIB Registered. Sorry if it sounds like me airing a big gripe of mine. I just want to know what's right & not feel like I'm having the P*** taken out of me.

 

[UNG]

I work for a company that isn't JIB registered but follows the JIB pay grades (Not London) I use my own vehicle and all expenses for my van are covered by myself. I got looking last night and there's a £0.92p/h difference in pay between having a company provide transport and you providing your own. I crunched some numbers last night and it's currently costing me £6.30 p/day in running costs (excluding van depreciation)
Those that provide their own transport, are we getting a fair pay rate? & what are peoples opinions on the JIB pay rates grading system?

The JIB rates are only a part of the package found in the JIB Handbook wage rates are normally set every few years by the JIB Industrial Determination whether the JIB model is still fit for purpose is open to debate. While some companies use the pay rates of the JIB they don't often use other parts of the JIB rules

Now onto fuel. Day to day jobs can be anywhere and mileage can vary including trips to the wholesalers etc.. If I were to travel say 137 miles (all-around journey/8 hour day) I'd be working on minimum wage that day. I was told I can claim mileage through the gov website? But even still it doesn't sit right that my bottom line gets cut into/having to wait for the money to come back to me.

The JIB Industrial Determination does include details on travelling time and travelling allowances including mileage
With regard to claiming mileage through the gov website I assume your employer is suggesting you reclaim the tax paid on what would be considered to be mileage in your pay which is not the same as being paid XXp / mile on top of your current wage

A couple of other little points I found in the JIB book.
"Day workers (operatives other than those employed on shift or night work or on any work carried out beyond working hours) shall be paid at the rate of time and a half of the appropriate hourly rate of pay for time worked before 7.00 am or after 7.00 pm on any day or at such higher rate as might otherwise apply under these National Working Rules." - Often required to start before 7am

"The number of hours to be worked at normal rates in any one week (Monday to Friday) before any overtime premium is calculated shall be 37½ hours. Premium time shall be paid at time-and-a-half" - Very often work above 37.5hours

These are some of the bits often ignored by non JIB employers who pay JIB rates

Obviously the company would tell me these don't apply because they're not actually JIB Registered. Sorry if it sounds like me airing a big gripe of mine. I just want to know what's right & not feel like I'm having the P*** taken out of me.

You can only talk to your employer and try to reach an agreement if you get no joy then your only option is to move on and find another job

 

[snowhead]

I can't understand why anyone would want to use their own vehicle if they aren't being paid for every business mile at a rate to cover fuel and running costs and that rate is linked to the actual price of fuel.

Somewhere there's a company owner sitting in a plush office, living in a mansion and having ALL his or her cars financed by their company and by employees who provide thier own vehicles.

 

[MJPD29]

I wouldn't entertain getting into my van to work for someone without being paid for it. Vans are expensive and only ever depreciates in value so you should be well compensated for it. I've only ever been supplied with a van when working for a company which I take home eliminating any travel costs whatsoever

 

[littlespark]

You might want to check your car insurance. Many of them are for commuting and pleasure, NOT for business.

If you lose your expensive tools, materials and the company test kit out your personal vehicle…. It might not be covered.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Regular day work for the same company then I would expect a van be provided as part of the job

Irregular sub-contract work for a company then I would expect to use my own van and charge them by the mile or have some other similar arrangement

 

[E_Jon23]

The JIB rates are only a part of the package found in the JIB Handbook wage rates are normally set every few years by the JIB Industrial Determination whether the JIB model is still fit for purpose is open to debate. While some companies use the pay rates of the JIB they don't often use other parts of the JIB rules

The JIB Industrial Determination does include details on travelling time and travelling allowances including mileage
With regard to claiming mileage through the gov website I assume your employer is suggesting you reclaim the tax paid on what would be considered to be mileage in your pay which is not the same as being paid XXp / mile on top of your current wage

These are some of the bits often ignored by non JIB employers who pay JIB rates

You can only talk to your employer and try to reach an agreement if you get no joy then your only option is to move on and find another job

By the sound of it, its fairly common for companies to pick and choose which parts of the JIB handbook they wish to follow?
Sounds a fairly screwy way of running a business but I guess they'll get lads (like me) who don't know any different until they look closer.

I can't understand why anyone would want to use their own vehicle if they aren't being paid for every business mile at a rate to cover fuel and running costs and that rate is linked to the actual price of fuel.

Somewhere there's a company owner sitting in a plush office, living in a mansion and having ALL his or her cars financed by their company and by employees who provide thier own vehicles.

If I had the choice I would taken the company vehicle. Unfortunately there is no company vehicle.

I wouldn't entertain getting into my van to work for someone without being paid for it. Vans are expensive and only ever depreciates in value so you should be well compensated for it. I've only ever been supplied with a van when working for a company which I take home eliminating any travel costs whatsoever

I do get paid door-to-door & have been told that's what my wage is for (Fuel, running costs...) so they don't see this as cutting into my bottom line nor does it affect them.

You might want to check your car insurance. Many of them are for commuting and pleasure, NOT for business.

If you lose your expensive tools, materials and the company test kit out your personal vehicle…. It might not be covered.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm covered but tool insurance is something I didn't account for in my calculations of daily running costs.

 

[derek]

My company pays me door to door, if I have to use my vehicle to get to a site they pay 35p per mile, I then claim the 10p per mile as an expense from HMRC at year end.
I would flat out refuse to work for a company that didn't pay milage and travel time, I think the company you work for is taking advantage of you and you should demand either a works vehicle or milage. Your wages are subsidising their business expenses.

 

[LukeD]

The sooner people work for themselves, get good clients and charge the right money the better . Working for someone makes them rich . they trade on you needing "security " .That "security " tends to mean accepting been treated badly and fair unfairly etc

 

[Dustydazzler]

Time for everyone to watch 'Rich Dad Poor Dad'

If you haven't seen his videos on YouTube , they will blow your mind

 

[i=p/u]

I agree with Luke in post above, I know they need baseline so can price jobs etc, but some jobs just sound horrible for a tradesman. And the agency's of today have gotten worse, they've popped up everywhere, they dont want to tell you the company, what type of work it is, it's a 10 or 12 basic shift. just turn up and hope for best.. I'm all for working for yourself when ya can.

 

[swaRRR]

I am not fully qualified and i'm on better than London rates JIB and i work in the north east. I also get a brand new transit custom van and fuel card.

IMO the JIB and their rates are a disgrace.

Worse is these companies that treat people like garbage with crap pay, no payments for travel, no tool allowance, poor hours, no early darts, etc. The real problem is the people that work for them and let them get away with it.

At my previous company a guy was getting the rough end of the stick. He set up a discussion with the boss and demanded extra on his hourly rate plus time and half overtime instead of time .33 and he got laughed at. That was 6 months ago. He went back to work and is on the same money today.

Boss tried the same with me, and i left. I'm now on more money than that other guy with stupendous working conditions and a boss that respects me.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I am not fully qualified and i'm on better than London rates JIB and i work in the north east. I also get a brand new transit custom van and fuel card.

IMO the JIB and their rates are a disgrace.

When I started in the trade in late 90s the JIB rates were considered the bare 'minimum' rate , it was just a guide so sparks had a base to negotiate up from

Todays JIB rates are crazy low , £16 for a fully qualified electrician is simply laughable and make the JIB rates utterly pointless in 2022

 

[swaRRR]

When I started in the trade in late 90s the JIB rates were considered the bare 'minimum' rate , it was just a guide so sparks had a base to negotiate up from

Todays JIB rates are crazy low , £16 for a fully qualified electrician is simply laughable and make the JIB rates utterly pointless in 2022

Improvers going through agencies are on more than that lol.

Get a job as an improver; better pay and none of the responsibility.

 

[LukeD]

You might want to check your car insurance. Many of them are for commuting and pleasure, NOT for business.

If you lose your expensive tools, materials and the company test kit out your personal vehicle…. It might not be covered.

TO use my estate for business use was only £130 more a year .I dont do tool insurance .I think its a waste of time. 99% of my work is very private domestic type work and they dont like vans outside etc and vans just get robbed out .Ive never needed a Van for years !