Kitchen appliance sockets and safe zones - right or wrong?

[AlphaBanana]

Hi all,

I think I'm posting this in the right place - apologies if not. I'm wondering if I could ask for a bit of help here.

I'm renovating a house for myself to live in, and I've spoken to an electrician this week to have it fully rewired. There appears to be a problem though with my planned utility room layout.

The attached picture (top half) shows the layout I planned after reading up as much as I could on forums like this one. Although perhaps not ideal to have sockets below the sink, I understand the regulations allow it, and there's nowhere else to make the sockets accessible. I've fitted the trucking and back boxes, as the electrician told me I could save a bit by doing the general chasing out etc throughout the house.

This electrician refused to do it this way because, he insists, the regulations demand:

(1) that the socket for a washing machine or tumble dryer must have an isolating switch above the worktop, and cannot be in a cupboard because it's not accessible;
(2) the presence of a cupboard in front of the sockets changes the normal safe zone rules, such that the vertical yellow line is no longer a safe zone because the socket isn't immediately visible.

Everything I can find online, without exception, says his first point is wrong, and I can't find anything at all regarding his second point. Also, a friend's recently professionally-refitted kitchen has each appliance plugged into a socket in the cupboard next to it. But I'm in no way qualified to be certain, and when I tried questioning, he just dug his heels in.

The bottom half shows what he tells me is necessary. Each isolating switch must be above its appliance, and >300mm from the sink, and therefore the socket must be hidden behind the appliance. I don't want them there, mainly because they're completely inaccessible, partly because it would probably push the appliance out slightly.

Is this one of those grey areas? Or is one of us just plain wrong? I'd greatly appreciate any help.

 

[Midwest]

And my new build, socket behind washer/dryer. Suppose its easier to build, that way, no faffing around after kitchen units put in. Took two of us to push the thing back & thread the waste pipe. Mind you, the plumber can faff around plumbing in the waste, so why can't the sparks do the same with a socket outlet

 

[Octopus]

And my new build, socket behind washer/dryer.

that's OK until the washing machine starts tripping the RCD...

 

[Midwest]

that's OK until the washing machine starts tripping the RCD...

Its ok, day put in one of those grid switches.

 

[Octopus]

Its ok, day put in one of those grid switches.

Yuk - hate the things

 

[Midwest]

I'm indifferent about them.

 

[cliffed]

Designated zones,just keep in line with sockets installed,then fit the others in a cupboard that suits,no need for switch above units.
Say a little pray...electricians always moaning,& pretending to be God,have a nice weekend

 

[willy fixit]

I put in sockets behind cupboards and the kitchen guy refused to put any cut outs in the backs to allow access. Waiting for the call when the w/mc has a fault and they call him back to unplug it. At least it can be isolated (Grid Switches - yuck).
Somehow managed to lose contact with him. Such a shame... not!

 

[cliffed]

I put in sockets behind cupboards and the kitchen guy refused to put any cut outs in the backs to allow access. Waiting for the call when the w/mc has a fault and they call him back to unplug it. At least it can be isolated (Grid Switches - yuck).
Somehow managed to lose contact with him. Such a shame... not![/QUOT
Typically fitter

 

[Dave OCD]

Always sockets in the cupboards for me too but if at all possible I'll bring the cables down the side from the rear in a little bit of trunking [or even clipped if the unit is sturdy] and mount the socket/s near the front of the base unit at a sensible height.

 

[Deleted account]

I personally would do it the way your electrician has stated. Isolator above, unswitched sockets/ outlet plates below.
Better design access for isolation. Part M has been taken into account.
Your way can be acceptable, but I would be strongly advising my way.
One thing I would do differently is I would have the unswitched socket /outlet plates in the cupboard next to appliances due to space issues with appliance.

 

[Dave OCD]

I personally would do it the way your electrician has stated. Isolator above, unswitched sockets/ outlet plates below.
Better design access for isolation. Part M has been taken into account.
Your way can be acceptable, but I would be strongly advising my way.
One thing I would do differently is I would have the unswitched socket /outlet plates in the cupboard next to appliances due to space issues with appliance.

In that case wouldn't it be just as well to put the switched socket in there and save an unnecessary accessory and connection.

 

[rolyberkin]

These cases are a little bit about good practice, becoming a reference when it is then best to refer to how we get there. As at least two people have mentioned the key word "access". We even have 513.1 ACCESSIBILITY to help us.

I am working on a kitchen this week and next, so interested in this post. The gist of the regs is, a socket shall be arranged to facilitate its operation, inspection and maintenance. This should not be impaired by mounting it in an enclosure or a compartment.

The use of an isolator above the worktop, meets the requirement easily, anything else has to be thought about and meet 513.1. My first thought is the reg is not met if you put your isolator at the back of or behind a cupboard. Regards

Don't agree with this view, personally it looks a lot better if the socket is hidden in the back of a cupboard. It is accessible for isolation even if someone has to move a box of weetabix to get to it.
Next we will have someone raising the issue of cutting plugs off appliances and invalidating the warranty again, pass me another beer!

 

[Deleted account]

In that case wouldn't it be just as well to put the switched socket in there and save an unnecessary accessory and connection.

Because it does not address accessibility ( part M)

 

[Dave OCD]

Well I'd argue that my way as described in post #24 would be much more accessible to a disabled person than reaching over the worktop.

 

[AlphaBanana]

Wow, lots of replies - big thank you to all for your advice. Seems all pretty much agree this electrician is wrong, apart from Paignton Pete - there had to be one

Regarding access to the sockets - I'll be fitting all kitchen and utility room units myself, and I'll probably leave the back off that cupboard, or otherwise cut a hole for each socket, because my entire point is to keep them accessible.

On a new build... Doubt if the OP has this issue?

Not a new build, so no I don't have the problem of having to comply with that, thankfully. To Paignton Pete: I understand what you mean, but I'm not fussed about part M, so bearing that in mind, could I ask you something? If I was offering you this job, you'd explained all this to me, strongly recommending your way for easier access, and I still wanted it done my preferred way, would you refuse to do it?

Perhaps he would be happier if the drop aligned with an outlet (as in 4) but then continued down to the lower level, then 90 degree turn and run horizontal to the appliance connections (as in 2).

Thanks for the idea, that sounds a good compromise, I'll have to see if he'd be happy with that.

...best in cupboards, using diagram #4, but isolators are not necessary...

Did you mean diagram #2 rather than #4, or am I misunderstanding you?

all he's got to do is stick one d/socket in base unit. why have two.

Because I've read that a double socket still has max 13A rating but these 2 appliances together could go over that, and therefore it's safer to use 2 singles. Even if it's only a theoretical problem or if there's disagreement over it, erring on the safe side seemed logical.

Crimson - where's the bad spelling?