KITCHEN RING. Just COOKER, HOB & EXTRACTOR?

[srands]

Hi quick question about what is common practice when wiring KITCHEN RINGs for your typical 4 bedroom house:

i) KITCHEN to include just COOKER, HOB & EXTRACTOR?

ii) OR i) + INCLUDE all other larger appliances (Washer, Dryer, Dishwasher, Fridge and Freezer), as well?

iii) OR i+ii INCLUDE all WORKTOP LEVEL sockets (Microwave, kettle, toaster, sandwich toaster, deep fat fryer, etc), as well?

iv) UNLESS just i), then all other KITCHEN APPLIANCES included with GROUND FLOOR SOCKET RADIAL?

Cheers

Stephan

 

[Penance]

I'd put in circuit for cooker and hob on it's own and a ring for sockets. Cooker hood on fcu off ring. I stand to be corrected!

 

[telectrix]

agree with penance. cooker must be own circuit unless it's fitted witha plug top. hob own cicuit ( can be same as cooker if rating allows) ring for all kitchen sockets with FCU or single socket for cooker hood. prefer to have kitchen ring separate from rest of ground floor socket ring, and on different RCD, so as if one RCD trips due to a fault, a temporary extension lead could be used to power fridge/freezer until fault can be rectified.

 

[Penance]

Ok to put fridge freezer on dedicated radial with 16a mcb?

 

[Smugley]

Another option I've used is to run a separate 32A 4mm radial just for built-in appliances - ie dishwasher, washer, drier etc with 20A DP grid switches above worktop and single unswitched sockets for each appliance below. All fed with 4mm to avoid a load of FCUs. This takes a load off the kitchen sockets and in a 'designer' kitchen the client loves the modern looking 4 way engraved grid switches rather than loads of switched spurs along their lovely tiles.

 

[Octopus]

Don't forget that this is all notifiable work, however you do it.

 

[rryles]

Another option I've used is to run a separate 32A 4mm radial just for built-in appliances - ie dishwasher, washer, drier etc with 20A DP grid switches above worktop and single unswitched sockets for each appliance below. All fed with 4mm to avoid a load of FCUs. This takes a load off the kitchen sockets and in a 'designer' kitchen the client loves the modern looking 4 way engraved grid switches rather than loads of switched spurs along their lovely tiles.

You can run from the switch to a single socket in 2.5mm. No FCU required. It's protected by the fuse in the plug which will be 13A at most.

 

[telectrix]

Another option I've used is to run a separate 32A 4mm radial just for built-in appliances - ie dishwasher, washer, drier etc with 20A DP grid switches above worktop and single unswitched sockets for each appliance below. All fed with 4mm to avoid a load of FCUs. This takes a load off the kitchen sockets and in a 'designer' kitchen the client loves the modern looking 4 way engraved grid switches rather than loads of switched spurs along their lovely tiles.

fine till the grid switches fail, if they're not MK.

 

[jmtisme]

You can run from the switch to a single socket in 2.5mm. No FCU required. It's protected by the fuse in the plug which will be 13A at most.

Think about this the fuse in the plug will only protect the cable going to the appliance it will not protect the 2.5mmT&E this would be protected by the mcb or fuse at the board unless you fused the dp switch you get fuse units for grids if the mcb or fuse was 32A this wouldn't be great practice to just have a 2.5mm T&E on it I would down rate it to a max 20A unless on a ring of course

 

[rryles]

Think about this the fuse in the plug will only protect the cable going to the appliance it will not protect the 2.5mmT&E this would be protected by the mcb or fuse at the board unless you fused the dp switch you get fuse units for grids if the mcb or fuse was 32A this wouldn't be great practice to just have a 2.5mm T&E on it I would down rate it to a max 20A unless on a ring of course

BRB page 363.

 

[Smugley]

fine till the grid switches fail, if they're not MK.

Are they particularly vulnerable to failure? I 've only used MK anyway.

Think about this the fuse in the plug will only protect the cable going to the appliance it will not protect the 2.5mmT&E this would be protected by the mcb or fuse at the board unless you fused the dp switch you get fuse units for grids if the mcb or fuse was 32A this wouldn't be great practice to just have a 2.5mm T&E on it I would down rate it to a max 20A unless on a ring of course

... which was why I used 4mm all the way to each appliance. Need a nice big backbox though!

 

[Amp David]

Think about this the fuse in the plug will only protect the cable going to the appliance it will not protect the 2.5mmT&E this would be protected by the mcb or fuse at the board unless you fused the dp switch you get fuse units for grids if the mcb or fuse was 32A this wouldn't be great practice to just have a 2.5mm T&E on it I would down rate it to a max 20A unless on a ring of course

Its the same as spurring of a 32 amp 2.5mm ring final. You only use 2.5mm for this wouldn't you. Just the 1 single or double outlet allowed.

 

[Smugley]

Yeah I agree - unlikely to overload with only single socket on each radial from the grid switch but I took the view that at the end of the day I was designing the circuit and so I would stick to the principle of protecting the cable at source rather than defer to the slightly incompatible but common practice of spurring off a ring as you suggest.

 

[bugsy]

Id give your local electrician a ring . a little knoledge can be dangerous

 

[rryles]

BS7671:2008 appendix 15, page 363. Radial final circuit arrangements. right hand side. 30 or 32A protective device. Unfused spur. Look at it. This is exactly the situation it covers.