KITCHEN RING. Just COOKER, HOB & EXTRACTOR?

[srands]

Hi quick question about what is common practice when wiring KITCHEN RINGs for your typical 4 bedroom house:

i) KITCHEN to include just COOKER, HOB & EXTRACTOR?

ii) OR i) + INCLUDE all other larger appliances (Washer, Dryer, Dishwasher, Fridge and Freezer), as well?

iii) OR i+ii INCLUDE all WORKTOP LEVEL sockets (Microwave, kettle, toaster, sandwich toaster, deep fat fryer, etc), as well?

iv) UNLESS just i), then all other KITCHEN APPLIANCES included with GROUND FLOOR SOCKET RADIAL?

Cheers

Stephan

 

[Smugley]

Sockets not behind. In adjacent cupboards.

 

[srands]

If my question is so ridiculously easy for you professional electricians/diyers (As available reference guides & equations either aren't complete, straight forward as they could be, or not really definitive or absolute), I realise nobody has answered my question, given the example, which socket wire (twin & earth), would you RING for the following circuit? (Summary: 3 skts total 32A, Metres total 60M's):

SKT D to A: 32A(TOTAL OF A+B+C), 20m's, Cumulative Count 0A
SKT A: 12A, AtoB 15m's, Cumulative Count 12A
SKT B: 14A, BtoC 20m's, Cumulative Count 26A
SKT C: 6A, CtoD 5m's, Cumulative Count 32A
see Spreadsheet example:

SO WHAT SKT WIRE/CABLE/TWIN&EARTH WOULD YOU USE ON THIS CIRCUIT, FOR A RING MAIN?
I bet none of you "pro leccy's" haven't got a serious suggestion for this simple example.

The only real question here is what is adequate SOCKET WIRE (Twin & Earth) for specific RING circuitS, two options (most recognised standards):

i) IEE 17th Edition Pg 44, 1.5mm or 2.5mm RINGED is adequate UPTO 32A only.
Which maybe OK for some house KITCHEN RING, but many may be greater then 32A. 4mm RING, 6mm RING, are the terminals big enough? (Yes, I know if it isn't, a length of socket wire, supply, load, is that skt wire AMPAGE ok).
The only other popular ring is SHOWER RING, 8KWp/h(33.3A) to 15KW p/h (62.5A) (These are averages, but obviously greater then 32A), guess TERMINALS on showers are big guess 4mm+ RINGED fits ok. Not every building has 1 shower, hence bigger fusebox/rcd/mcb, & not every building has sml kitchen: hotels, colleges, restaurants, so 1 big KITCHEN RING circuit or many MCBs.

ii) If AMPAGE greater then 32A, then the KIRCHOFF equation to work out the AMPAGE SPREAD OVER THE RING, then see which SOCKET WIRE (TWIN & EARTH) is adequate, is too bigger AMPAGE, next MCB, etc. However some variables have to be known (Or variables made up, as may not be known at this point!) the AMPAGE MAXIMUM at each socket and METRES distance between SOCKETS.
see Spreadsheet example:

Cheers

Stephan

RING AMP CALC: Add your comments/workings and upload/post

FUSEBOX MCB autocalc 3rd & 4th tab

ELEC GAS WATER autocalc 1st tab, scroll down


Also posted here without any success!:
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...guide-per-socket-wire-thickness-ampage-4.html
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...m-estimated-ampage-skt-wire-2.html#post241882
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...g-just-cooker-hob-extractor-3.html#post241768
​

 

[Paul.M]

"If my question is so ridiculously easy for you professional electricians/diyers"

Diyers? Have a look at you other thread with the same question, its been answered for you.

It's only going to be on there for another 5 mins due to you calling professional tradesmen "diyers" so you better be quick and copy and paste it.

 

[srands]

My word you'd think I was asking how to make/buy explosives, detonators, bombs, guns, bio hazard or toxic chemicals!

No wonder Luke Goss, isn't keen on Vampires! (You get it? "I hate vampires", well RING circuits is all about AMPAGE spread/distributed, point being if you don't know what it is on paper, you're not likely to come to the right conclusion, especially if you had it work it out the Kirchoff equation for yourself after not having ever done it before or not for a long time, without being near your reference guides/notes or a computer/laptop).

Anyway solved the Kirchoff equation. So in other words, the offices work it all out for the electricians, so I guess it's a red herring that electricians are good with maths.

See spreadsheet for Kirchoff calc with workings:

RING AMP autocalc: 1st tab

FUSEBOX MCB autocalc: 3rd & 4th tab

ELEC GAS WATER autocalc: 1st tab, scroll down

LIGHTING CIRCUITS diagrams: Section 9

 

[SMB]

yawn...

 

[RogertheBodger]

You have been a busy lad Stephen, an impressive amount of work, what are you hoping to do with all of this information?

 

[rryles]

You have been a busy lad Stephen, an impressive amount of work, what are you hoping to do with all of this information?

Don't you mean misinformation?

 

[SMB]

snore...

 

[RogertheBodger]

Coouuld be a few slight mistakes in the text rryles, but the scope is breathtaking, have you had a look through? because there is no doubt in my mind that the Northern hemisphere is without doubt sitting on the top of the planet, so can't fault that, could be looking at a future bestseller here, we should be grateful that the Electricians forum has been chosen to preview it, intend getting my name on the acknowledgments.

 

[ecclescake]

3 theads on this crap. WTF is skt wire?

 

[RogertheBodger]

Come on srands, I see you on the thread, tell us what you are up to, you've taken a lot of stick and keep coming back, good for you, open up, tell us what you want.

 

[SMB]

He wants to know about AMPAGE and SKT WIRES.

 

[RogertheBodger]

And lots of other things besides, look at post 34 on this thread and click on lighting circuits diagrams and have a read, see you in a few hours.

 

[SMB]

Ive posted elsewhere that he is clever.

I also posted elsewhere that he has tourettes.

 

[RogertheBodger]

Read it, but are you a Doctor?, aren't you interested to know what this is all about, if you haven't read the depth of his work it,s not fair for you to comment, I'm interested to know why he has compiled the mass of data that he has, I want to know what he wants us to do with it and why is he so persistent, so come on srands, you are still on the thread, speak up.