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who is right and wrong about the information given about this no continuity of Line/Neutral/CPC conductors for the ring final circuit in kitchen sockets?
Just picked up on this thread and sounds like whoever may have worked on the circuit 8/9 years ago was wrong by leaving an open circuit RFC (Hence 2 cables still in same circuit breaker at CU), and should have been de-rated at that time.
Whilst having 2 cables at the same circuit breaker implies it could be a RFC but often (too often especially after sub standard work by kitchen fitters/DIY) RFC's are often left 'open circuit'.
Assuming it to be a RFC, the initial tests for continuity at the CU would prove it to be an open circuit RFC.
Subsequent testing would prove it to be a radial circuit and I can only think the S/FCU was installed when it was a RFC for compliance when wiring more than one socket from a RFC. If a radial had been established beforehand this would have been unnecessary.
Someone switching off the S/FCU (which you may want to change for an US/FCU to prevent happening again) would initially show as an open circuit for the part of the radial circuit downstream from there.
 
It’s starting to sound like the switched fuses have been connected wrong.

If all the switches are on, do all the sockets work ok?

I’m thinking some doughnut has mixed up the supply and the load…. So when the switch is off, it cuts the ring open… creating 2 radials.
Same mistake at another switch would cut out a section of the ring completely.

I think I mentioned earlier that every socket (and appliance switch) needs disconnected and every cable on the circuit tested to map out what goes where.

Yes, of course someone might have left an inaccessible joint box somewhere…. We can’t know for sure… but I’m thinking along the lines of it being wired correctly, but simply connected wrong.
 
It’s starting to sound like the switched fuses have been connected wrong.

If all the switches are on, do all the sockets work ok?
There are 4 isolator switches in the kitchen and three were turned off. He turned them back on and all sockets are now working.
 
It sounds like it was originally a ring final with 4 Fcu for drops to the appliances.

A bit of diy later and its now a radial.

If there is still 2 legs at the consumer unit then it needs investigating whether 1 of the legs is still supplying anything at all.
 
It’s starting to sound like the switched fuses have been connected wrong.

If all the switches are on, do all the sockets work ok?

I’m thinking some doughnut has mixed up the supply and the load…. So when the switch is off, it cuts the ring open… creating 2 radials.
Same mistake at another switch would cut out a section of the ring completely.

I think I mentioned earlier that every socket (and appliance switch) needs disconnected and every cable on the circuit tested to map out what goes where.

Yes, of course someone might have left an inaccessible joint box somewhere…. We can’t know for sure… but I’m thinking along the lines of it being wired correctly, but simply connected wrong.
I would bet that's what the problem is.someone has tested the ring continuity with switchs in the on position ,happy days the bell tester beeps
 
Ideally, this needs an experienced and competent electrician to go through the whole circuit, working out where each cable goes and connects to what, so as to be sure whether the 32A MCB needs to be replaced with a lower rated one, whether the circuit loading is suitable for that, and to ensure that there aren't any connected cables where the location of the other end is unknown.
 
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Just wondering if wired wrongly how it would account for the lack of CPC which I assume he now has with the fcus on.
 
Just wondering if wired wrongly how it would account for the lack of CPC which I assume he now has with the fcus on.
We're obviously looking for more than one fault here.....

But who actually told him there was a lack of cpc? one of the "electricians" that hasn't fixed the problem yet?
 
We're obviously looking for more than one fault here.....
How is there, obviously 2 faults ?

It looks to me to be a now Radial circuit with 4 FCUs feeding 3 socket outlets and a cooker hood.

These 3 sockets fcus were turned off by someone else other than the electricians.

But who actually told him there was a lack of cpc? one of the "electricians" that hasn't fixed the problem yet?
The first electrician said : there is no continuity of Line/Neutral/CPC conductors for the ring final circuit in kitchen sockets.
 
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It's now a radial circuit with at least two branches from source (the circuit breaker in the CU), but given that the original 32A breaker (confirming it was originally a RFC?) was left in place, when it shouldn't have been, who knows if the radials are of an acceptable design and whether or not there are unterminated live ends somewhere?
The whole lot needs a thorough checking over.
 
I can’t fathom out how the first one got it wrong did he actually look in the consumer unit at all ?

The switches you said about that were off have they got a fuse in them?

He did look at the consumer unit yet, he carried out tests from the unit from what I recall.

I didn't note whether there were fuses in the isolator switches. I think it was just wiring. It is one of these grids that I have
 
It's now a radial circuit with at least two branches from source (the circuit breaker in the CU), but given that the original 32A breaker (confirming it was originally a RFC?) was left in place, when it shouldn't have been, who knows if the radials are of an acceptable design and whether or not there are unterminated live ends somewhere?
The whole lot needs a thorough checking over.

The kitchen sockets are radial circuit yes but there used to be a double socket in the wall in one corner which is no longer there but the first electrician believes this is a ring. The property is fairly new so it hasn't had any major works done to any electrics other than this socket removal and the wires left in the wall but they are not live wires I was told. They are coming from top somewhere which the electrician believes are likely from the bedroom above. However electrician 2 does not see this an issue because if it was connected to something that socket wouldn't be working but it does and always has done.

1. If a ring is open with no continuity does this mean one or more sockets would not work?

2. If I follow the advice of electrician 2 and just get him to downrate the kitchen circuit breaker down to 20a from 32a, techinically I then don't need to worry about those wires hidden inside the wall?
 
1. If a ring is open, everything still works… but it’s technically 2 radials. If the ends of the radials met up, it would be a closed ring.

2. If the wires left in the wall are not live, then it’s safe to leave them.
Downrating the circuit breaker to 20A protects the cable from overloading. A 2.5mm cable can take roughly 26A (with a little give and take depending on external factors)
With a ring, there is 2 x 2.5”s sharing the load, so we can use a higher 32A breaker.


Ideally, the electricians should be trying to solve the problem and try to reestablish a ring.
It may be found that the majority of high powered appliances are all on one radial, and hardly anything on the other.
 
The kitchen sockets are radial circuit yes but there used to be a double socket in the wall in one corner which is no longer there but the first electrician believes this is a ring. The property is fairly new so it hasn't had any major works done to any electrics other than this socket removal and the wires left in the wall but they are not live wires I was told. They are coming from top somewhere which the electrician believes are likely from the bedroom above. However electrician 2 does not see this an issue because if it was connected to something that socket wouldn't be working but it does and always has done.

1. If a ring is open with no continuity does this mean one or more sockets would not work?
No because one leg of what the once was ring final will still be connected to the socket outlets.
2. If I follow the advice of electrician 2 and just get him to downrate the kitchen circuit breaker down to 20a from 32a, techinically I then don't need to worry about those wires hidden inside the wall?
Yes and no.
Really speaking, if there are still 2 legs in the consumer unit then it has to be established that both are feeding socket outlets, If only one leg is then the other one should be disconnected.
If they both still feed socket outlets/ appliances, then it needs to established that it's terminated properly.

It maybe not easily be possible to re-establish the ring final so depending on how many sockets/appliances are on each leg and if you have a spare way 2×20 amp rcbos would be the way to go.
 

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