LABC don't think I'm qualified to wire my house

[ChipFanDave]

Hi any idea what would consist of demonstrating you are suitable qualified to BS 7678 17th Edition.

As I have approach my LABC to notify them of my intention to rewire my house including a new extension. I have sent them copies of my: C&G 2360 Lv1&2, C&G 2382(BS7671) Lv3, and C&G 2391 Lv3. I have a number of other qualifications but they are little to do with domestic installing.

This is the reply I have received.

Good afternoon


I can confirm from the information you have provided it does not demonstrate that you are qualified to BS7671iet wiring regulations 17th Edition.


In this instance the fee will be £348.00 (inc.vat)

If you think this is reasonable then can you point me in the right direction of getting the necessary qualifications.

I have asked for an explanation from LABC only to be told "the surveyor look at your qualifications and said you are not trained to 17th edition"

Thanks

 

[Midwest]

Unbelievable what some people are spouting and stating it as fact...
BS 7671 IS a level 3 exam and Does entitle you to register with a scheme and they use the level 3 as their acceptance.

Thank god they are on the back of my current JIB gold card.....They may well be superseded and replaced but they are still fully recognized....Think about what you are saying ....That some spark who has been working in the game for 40years no is somehow no longer qualified because some new easier exam has replaced what went before....And we ALL know it's easier don't we ?
Some would be better just commenting "I actually don't know"....

Easy tiger. I did allude to that in #53, but I don't think the OP has level 3?

Edit; referring to OP's C&G 2360

 

[Diddy]

Easy tiger. I did allude to that in #53, but I don't think the OP has level 3?

I am a bit miffed to be honest Midwest. I just didn't like being told that I was "talking out of my proverbial" by someone who actually it turns out really does not know what the scheme requirements are nor what several local councils allow or do not allow. Deep breath lol....I know it's just the internet and people write stuff off the top of their head ALL the time but still a little bit of mutual respect and maybe even a bit of fact checking go a long way.
I just get peed off (On my english friends behalf) that this ill thought out Part P scheme is somehow being lauded as the great enforcer....It is not, It has done nothing to stop DIY Dave, All it has done is 1. opened up a short cut (18 days) into the trade and 2. enabled a load of kitchen fitters to do the electrical work and notify it and finally 3 created a lot of expense and waste of time for people with "proper" qualifications coming out of their ears

We surely ALL agree that passing the regs exam never makes you a spark.....Try telling the NICEIC that though....As long as the cheque clears all will be well. That does not make you a fully qualified electrician but sadly it does enable you to trade as a domestic installer and to work on domestic electrics. Tis not me who makes the "rules" up....I am just a mere messenger with a tiny bit of knowledge lol.

 

[ChipFanDave]

Easy tiger. I did allude to that in #53, but I don't think the OP has level 3?

Edit; referring to OP's C&G 2360

OK I did not wish to cause a falling out between any one.

I only have level 1&2 2360 as level 3 was removed and I think you either went NVQ or AM2 I'm not an full time installer by trade so I'm on the NVQ route.

However I have spent 20min on the phone and cleared up both the percived lack off qualifications and the paying of two seperate fees. I will be getting a visits from there inspector but would of only had to pay the lower fee ( now no additional fee).

Tin hat on.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Perhaps a LABC should be responsible for verifying applicants qualifications for applications to a scheme, and not the schemes themselves

You must be joking. Councils have neither the skills or the inclination to do this. If they did they would have to take on responsibility and skill for every activity that requires notification, stuff like oil tanks, air conditioning, double glazing units. It isn't going to happen.

All LABC want is a notification (usually electronically) from a recognised third party that Mssrs Sparky have done their job properly. That's all they need, nice and simple. If anything goes wrong they can go back to the recognised third party and kick their butts for not policing Mssrs Sparky's activities.

Anything outside this involves time, work and for the council to take on a level of ownership of the process. They do not want to do this, so they charge accordingly.

If I were to do David's work then the notification costs about £2.50 (setting aside my standing NAPIT membership costs).

I do not know at what stage David is at with this project. If it isn't started yet then maybe its time to buddy up with a registered electrician who may be prepared to let you do most of the grunt and then sign the work off as his own.

 

[Dan]

Keep it professional lads.

 

[ChipFanDave]

As I'm now able to do the work myself and at no additional administative costs I will keep my £2.50 in my pocket and my tea and biscuit stash safe.

As I'm going about this the right way I ofcourse have not started any installation work before notifying LABC. I'm still ripping out the rubber singles and bakalite socket and switches.

 

[sparksburnout]

I am a bit miffed to be honest Midwest. I just didn't like being told that I was "talking out of my proverbial" by someone who actually it turns out really does not know what the scheme requirements are nor what several local councils allow or do not allow. Deep breath lol....I know it's just the internet and people write stuff off the top of their head ALL the time but still a little bit of mutual respect and maybe even a bit of fact checking go a long way.
I just get peed off (On my english friends behalf) that this ill thought out Part P scheme is somehow being lauded as the great enforcer....It is not, It has done nothing to stop DIY Dave, All it has done is 1. opened up a short cut (18 days) into the trade and 2. enabled a load of kitchen fitters to do the electrical work and notify it and finally 3 created a lot of expense and waste of time for people with "proper" qualifications coming out of their ears

We surely ALL agree that passing the regs exam never makes you a spark.....Try telling the NICEIC that though....As long as the cheque clears all will be well. That does not make you a fully qualified electrician but sadly it does enable you to trade as a domestic installer and to work on domestic electrics. Tis not me who makes the "rules" up....I am just a mere messenger with a tiny bit of knowledge lol.

For your information, I am fully aware of what the requirements are, certainly in my area, as 1) i am IN a scheme, and have discussed these very points with the assessor during my last chat with him, and 2) I have dealt with Building control, and in fact know a BCO. In my neck of the woods they either come out themselves (usually using a contractor), after a building notice has been served, or they take the submission via a scheme from the competent person involved. These are their words not mine, I am not sticking up for anyone involved. There is no half way house or looking into a particular persons qualifications, that is what the schemes were introduced for.
As regards people going on that 18 day course, if you read the information in the link, it is very sketchy in parts and does not say that you will definitely be able to do anything. My assessor told me that he himself had failed several people for not having the required qualifications, or their work not being up to scratch. From the questions I have personally been asked during several assessments, I cannot see how someone who has only done an 18 day course will possibly have the knowledge to answer them confidently. I am also pretty sure that Stroma do not just accept the regs course as the only qualification they need to see. Maybe other schemes do to be a "DI", I have never looked into that side of it as it does not interest me.
I apologise if you took exception to my comments about your proverbial, it's just an expression that blokes tend to use when having a bit of a discussion, maybe I shouldn't have said it on here, maybe you might be being a tad sensitive? Anyway no offence meant, and have a nice Xmas

 

[Diddy]

Keep it professional lads.

I for one apologize to all for getting heated...As happens sometimes im letting home-life stress come out in some of my ill tempered replies. No excuse.
End of the day the OP now has his definitive answer, Which as always is usually got by calling/emailing "The Man". As far as op is concerned he has saved a few pounds and is able to use his previously measured skill (in the form of his qualifications) to do the work AND notify said work and comply with all relevant regulations and statutes.

 

[Diddy]

For your information, I am fully aware of what the requirements are, certainly in my area, as 1) i am IN a scheme, and have discussed these very points with the assessor during my last chat with him, and 2) I have dealt with Building control, and in fact know a BCO. In my neck of the woods they either come out themselves (usually using a contractor), after a building notice has been served, or they take the submission via a scheme from the competent person involved. These are their words not mine, I am not sticking up for anyone involved. There is no half way house or looking into a particular persons qualifications, that is what the schemes were introduced for.
As regards people going on that 18 day course, if you read the information in the link, it is very sketchy in parts and does not say that you will definitely be able to do anything. My assessor told me that he himself had failed several people for not having the required qualifications, or their work not being up to scratch. From the questions I have personally been asked during several assessments, I cannot see how someone who has only done an 18 day course will possibly have the knowledge to answer them confidently. I am also pretty sure that Stroma do not just accept the regs course as the only qualification they need to see. Maybe other schemes do to be a "DI", I have never looked into that side of it as it does not interest me.
I apologise if you took exception to my comments about your proverbial, it's just an expression that blokes tend to use when having a bit of a discussion, maybe I shouldn't have said it on here, maybe you might be being a tad sensitive? Anyway no offence meant, and have a nice Xmas

As I alluded to mate im just a bit stressy knickers at the moment. We move onwards and er...upwards lol. I know MANY councils in England do not accept the method that op's council have...And that was/is my gripe. It is NOT one organization. It is not based on a definitive set of qualifications nor experience and if you stand back and look at the current system objectively then the flaws (For which YOU and many others are paying for) are all too easy to expose and exploit. Until we have a properly policed scheme like GasSafe that prosecutes ect ect then I will always view these middle men for what they are.
Last point I was talking exclusively about domestic installers....Which enables LABC notifying and honestly there are clueless "newbies" that can and do "trade" as sparks (Domestic only) and these short courses enable them to do so. A discussion for another day lol. There has been hundreds of posts on here from apparently fully approved DI's asking the very most basic of questions which really belong in the DIY section....I don't even blame them poor sods...they have been missold a "dream" often accompanied with the advert stating we ALL earn £50k +...That is why I get peed off by these parasites. Anyway have a good day and a good xmas.

 

[Midwest]

You must be joking.

Yep I was

 

[Midwest]

OK I did not wish to cause a falling out between any one.

I only have level 1&2 2360 as level 3 was removed and I think you either went NVQ or AM2 I'm not an full time installer by trade so I'm on the NVQ route.

However I have spent 20min on the phone and cleared up both the percived lack off qualifications and the paying of two seperate fees. I will be getting a visits from there inspector but would of only had to pay the lower fee ( now no additional fee).

Tin hat on.

Why did they decline you qualies firstly, out of curiosity? Slightly fuller explanation might help others in the future.

 

[Midwest]

I think as this thread proves, some LBC seem to interpret the Building Regs differently.

For clarity Part P Building Regs, gives 3 options for Certification, inspection & testing (pages 9 & 10); http://webarchive.nationalarchives....portal.gov.uk/uploads/br/br_pdf_ad_p_2013.pdf

Third option; Certification by Building Control. Looking at 3.8 to 3.12.

 

[ChipFanDave]

Why did they decline you qualies firstly, out of curiosity? Slightly fuller explanation might help others in the future.

Very simple and a little bit sneaky, if I contact them after the they have declined them then he gets to talk to me about the job and my qualifications, and If I don't bother to get to them then maybe I'm not that interested anyway ! I guess that may not be the correct way for them to go about it but it works for them. The surveyor I spoke to seamed quite knowledgeable on the subject, I quite enjoyed talking with him.

 

[Midwest]

Tad sneaky. Suppose it puts off the ne'er-do-wells.

 

[sparksburnout]

As I alluded to mate im just a bit stressy knickers at the moment. We move onwards and er...upwards lol. I know MANY councils in England do not accept the method that op's council have...And that was/is my gripe. It is NOT one organization. It is not based on a definitive set of qualifications nor experience and if you stand back and look at the current system objectively then the flaws (For which YOU and many others are paying for) are all too easy to expose and exploit. Until we have a properly policed scheme like GasSafe that prosecutes ect ect then I will always view these middle men for what they are.
Last point I was talking exclusively about domestic installers....Which enables LABC notifying and honestly there are clueless "newbies" that can and do "trade" as sparks (Domestic only) and these short courses enable them to do so. A discussion for another day lol. There has been hundreds of posts on here from apparently fully approved DI's asking the very most basic of questions which really belong in the DIY section....I don't even blame them poor sods...they have been missold a "dream" often accompanied with the advert stating we ALL earn £50k +...That is why I get peed off by these parasites. Anyway have a good day and a good xmas.

No worries, better than kicking the dog.